Recent Comments:
Renault debuts electric sedan in Israel {Autoblog}
May 17th 2008 3:59AM A lead acid array probably won't cost north of $10,000; it'll just be f'n heavy & the batteries will take up a lot of space. On the other hand, the nimh or li-ion will likely cost around $10k. Tesla gives estimate of $20k for their pack in their roadster which can go 221 miles combined. But Tesla's using the daisy chain method; I think NEC will probably have a cheaper way to make these batteries (see below) not to mention they might be using a cheaper chemistry than li-ion.
On your comment about li-ion, the large size li-ion packs definitely have room to get cheaper even assuming current li-ion cells don't ever get cheaper. Transportation ready li-ion packs have only picked up these last couple of years. All the li-ion cells we used in cell phones and laptops are smaller cells. The best you could do with those cells are daisy chain them together like Tesla is doing. It doesn't take a genius to know there are probably more efficient ways to make large battery packs (as an example in the Volt, the companies building the battery have adjusted cell size and shape to fit the application). Li-ion polymer batteries come in here too. They can be layered and don't need a rigid metal casing, meaning they will be more energy dense and they can be made specifically for large packs. Even for the daisy chain method, it's more expensive now because the cells are usually bought and shipped from somewhere else before being put together in a pack (meaning a profit was already made there). If it's all done at the same place (likely to be true in this venture) then it would be cheaper; esp if the whole process is streamlined and they are building the pack from start to finish as a pack for transportation use (this is where "mass produced" comes in too because they have to recover development and tooling costs).
Sparks fly: Fisker sues Tesla back {Autoblog}
May 14th 2008 2:59PM Design of body structure will inevitably involve important battery and drivetrain packaging details; he may have gotten a glimpse of other details in the progress, who knows. But it still seems to me it's mostly speculation by Tesla, doesn't seem like they have very strong evidence and I can't think of any obvious way to get evidence to prove their claims even if it was true, since Fisker never revealed the details on the tech inside the Karma.
Again, we'll have to learn more as the story progresses; I agree with Cole Mitguard, Tesla should have protected themselves with a non-competition clause if they were willing to sue. But for Tesla's sake I hope they at least of some kind of strong evidence instead of just speculation or they will turn out to look very stupid for bringing a baseless lawsuit (may just be a PR stunt like Fisker is saying if that is the case). But, again, we can't judge yet this early in the case.
Sparks fly: Fisker sues Tesla back {Autoblog}
May 14th 2008 2:49PM Again don't draw conclusions here, that was the point of the article, goes for you too, tankd0g. NO ONE in the public has seen anything about the Whitestar yet so we don't even have a basis to judge.
@Herkimer
He was referring to the whitestar, which no one has seen yet, so I don't think he can really say that it was half assed.
Ex-Tesla CEO irked over which Roadster he's getting {Autoblog}
May 13th 2008 3:26AM You have to look at the situation differently. They weren't arguing for the first cars because that they fear the company will go bankrupt before they make more. They are arguing because the first production models are the most significant models. Think about the first ferrari or porsche, probably worth lots of money today and a great collectors item. But for a guy so involved in the company it also holds lots of symbolic value too. We are all car guys here, so I think you should know what I mean.
Ex-Tesla CEO irked over which Roadster he's getting {Autoblog}
May 13th 2008 3:17AM Well, he worked his ass off in the company for more than four years, so it wouldn't be that much to ask to reserve production car number one. He compromised and made do with number 2 but now Tesla seems to be squeezing him out of that one too, since it seems he's getting VIN number two instead of production model number two. Yes, a small difference to us, but it holds a more emotional value for Martin, beyond just the collector's value of the lower VIN vehicles; he already gave way by agreeing to take number two.
Tweaked 2009 Ford Focus Coupe debuts {Autoblog}
May 13th 2008 3:08AM They actually listened and addressed a lot of points; it's not too different that the orginal, but you can't expect it to change too much since it's just a refresh. Perhaps another criticism is that the way they designed the side makes the 17 inch wheels look smaller.
Looking forward to the next version on the new chassis.
Oh and another thing, it's good to hear it is still selling well despite looks; every one said the first gen focus looked butt ugly and it still sold well, and seems this gen is carrying on the tradition.
AutoblogGreen pays a visit to the new Tesla Motors store {Autoblog Green}
May 11th 2008 11:19PM @texmln
The thing is these things are all publicly known, even at the time when most of these people were ordering (remember, they weren't even in production at the time and people began putting down thousands of dollars for deposit already), so that wouldn't constitute as fraud, since everyone knew they weren't going to get their cars for a while.
Which is what makes it incredible that over a thousand people each put out $5000 (or more) preorders on a car which haven't even been delivered to a customer not associated with the company. Who knows? Maybe they are all enviro-nutjobs like us.
As for the battery issue, it has been discussed to death before: Tesla will be the one providing the recycling (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/03/12/tesla-on-battery-recycling/) and, besides, li-ions are non-toxic, landfill safe, while your typical lead acid car batteries are highly toxic (yet, we have no problem using those, until of course we use them in EVs, then those batteries are evil). Also, the battery pack is 1000lbs, so I doubt it will randomly get lost instead of being returned to Tesla.
AutoblogGreen pays a visit to the new Tesla Motors store {Autoblog Green}
May 11th 2008 10:52PM @Mark
They won't be making any profit and will be barely keeping afloat or bankrupt if they started by marketing to the mass market; I think we have discussed this before. Just look at GM, even they are already saying they will likely not make a profit on the Volt until quite late in the game and the car's already $35k. I just don't think Tesla has the capability to compete with big automakers even if EVs are as cheap to make as gasoline cars are. They need the early margins to be big to keep the company afloat and repay investors. After all, this whole thing is funded by investors and investors want a return.
And remember Tesla's aim is to make real, fully crash tested cars, not quadricycles or NEVs, and, so far, the only truely affordable EVs that are also real cars (but even those are city cars) are being introduced by large manufacturers like mitsubishi and subaru, with ample support of the Japanese government.
Fisker Karma hybrid sports car spotted on test track complete with stripes and video {Engadget}
May 11th 2008 3:15PM @Aaron
By Tesla, I assume you mean the Roadster. The Roadster isn't competition for this car anyways, b/c it's a lighter electric sports car with 0-60 under 4 seconds. The Fisker Karma is a plug-in hybrid sedan with 0-60 near 6 seconds. As a hybrid, it should be much cheaper to make, mostly due to the fact they don't need such a large battery pack, since electric only range is expected to be only around 50 miles, while the Roadster gets 221 miles EPA combined.
The Tesla Whitestar, on the other hand, (subject of the lawsuit with Fisker) is going to be direct competition with the Karma since it is also an electrically driven sports sedan costing a little less than the Karma ($50-70k range vs $80k), with a plug-in hybrid option also coming along following the EV version. Tesla announced it a long time ago and was working on it since then (in fact the final single speed drivetrain of the Roadster is inspired by work on the Whitestar), but they haven't shown any of details of the design yet.
Seems like Fisker decided to sacrifice acceleration for top speed if the specs are true. The 0-60 is now closer to 6 seconds instead of 5 seconds, so it is less on par with sports sedans. If top speed is 150mph then that is on par with most sports sedans. Makes me want to really see how the Whitestar turned out, Tesla said they would release details in the first half of this year.
Spy Shots: Fisker Karma caught testing in California {Autoblog Green}
May 11th 2008 2:48PM @Jeremy Korzeniewski
The Fisker Karma also had video with it from autospies; not sure if it's worthy of a news post, but engadget had the scoop:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/11/fisker-karma-hyrbid-sports-car-spotted-on-test-track-complete-wi/
video's on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPYUd9pLEKo
Sounded like they do have at least an EV drivetrain inside the car to me. There is that signature whine.
