Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Tesla Motors, UK
Tesla clarifies some of Top Gear's "mischaracterizations"
Click above to watch the video
Now that we've all had some time to digest the review that Jeremy Clarkson gave the Tesla Roadster, perhaps some of the points made therein should be analyzed a bit further. One memorable scene had Clarkson and the Top Gear crew pushing their first Roadster (they had two for testing) into the garage after apparently running out of juice. Or did they? According to Rachel Konrad, Senior Communications Manager at Tesla Motors, the car was most definitely not out of juice. Although she chooses not to speculate herself, consider yourself free to discuss why the scene was filmed this way in the comments. Our guess would be that it made for good television. If so, that seems a bit like open deception.
A second issue that Clarkson had with the Roadster is with the brakes. Apparently, all of that race track flinging managed to blow a fuse in what we're assuming must be the regenerative braking system. After the fuse was replaced, there were no more problems. Our take on this is that a blown fuse, while not a big problem and easy to fix, is still an issue and all that the average driver would know is that the brakes aren't working properly. Surely, though, Clarkson isn't the average driver, so perhaps he should have reported on the cause of the brake failure, but whatever.
The last point Konrad makes is that the 16-hour recharge time quoted by Top Gear is an absolute worst-case scenario - sort of like filling your gas tank using a thousand Dixie Cups full of petrol. Anyone looking to purchase a Tesla should be aware that the car can take a much faster charge and that the appropriate equipment is available to do just that right from the factory. In any case, it was fun watching the Roadster being flung around by The Stig and listening to Clarkson's comments, proving once again that Top Gear is the most entertaining auto show on TV. Read Rachel's entire comment, made on a blog posting over at Dvorak.org, after the break.
[Source: Dvorak.org]
Blog Post by Rachel Konrad:
For the record: Thanks to The Stig's impressive turn behind the wheel, the Tesla Roadster gets a higher ranking in Top Gear's performance board than a Porsche 911 GT3. Jeremy Clarkson, a die-hard "petrol head" with a clear bias against green cars generally, said that it must be "snowing in hell" because he had such a great time driving the Roadster and now considers himself a "volt head" thanks to the Roadster's amazing performance. This is amazingly high praise from Clarkson, whose entire schtick is to savage even his most beloved petrol-guzzling sports cars.
However, I would like to clarify a couple things. Never at any time did Clarkson or any of the Top Gear drivers run out of charge. In fact, they never got below 20 percent charge in either car; they never had to push a car off the track because of lack of charge or a fault. (It's unclear why they were pushing one into a garage in the video; I'll refrain from speculating about their motives.)
The "brake failure" Clarkson mentions was solely a blown fuse; a service technician replaced the Roadster's pump and it was back up and running immediately. They were never without a car, and the Top Gear testing did not put the Roadster's reliability or safety in question whatsoever. Again, I'm going to leave out comments as to why the good folks at Top Gear might have mischaracterized the blown fuse as a brake failure, which is was decidedly not.
I am also unclear as to why Clarkson said it took 16 hours to recharge the Roadster without qualifying that statement at all. The vast majority of people who have taken delivery of their Roadsters (and there are more than 100 of them now) have much faster systems that recharge from dead to full in as little as 3.5 hours.
However, I really enjoyed Clarkson's suggestion that, if people want to race Roadsters 24-7, they should simply buy two. ;)
Rachel Konrad
Senior Communications Manager
Tesla Motors Inc.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
slk23 1:54PM (12/16/2008)
I don't think TG did right with their Tesla review (and the FCX
Clarity segment was even worse -- I'm so disappointed in James May). However, this statement by Rachel Konrad doesn't add up:
"The “brake failure” Clarkson mentions was solely a blown fuse; a service technician replaced the Roadster’s pump and it was back up and running immediately."
If the problem was only a blown fuse, why did a service technician have to replace a pump?
Reply
jake 3:00PM (12/16/2008)
Yeah, that fuse and pump thing doesn't make sense to me either. Maybe they decided to replace the whole pump rather than just the fuse to be extra safe.
But really the damage had already been done in that segment, especially with the Clarity segment following (also disappointed at May, for that kind of segment).
Richard 3:14PM (12/16/2008)
Fuse?
Pump?
What's the diff?
There is a reason you don't send a girl to get the car fixed!
Chris Barron 1:29PM (12/17/2008)
If a fuse blows it is usually diue to a component drawing too much current causing the fuse to do what it is designed to do and that is to blow.
There would be little point in replacing the fuse if it is only going to blow again due to the pump (for whatever reason) drawing too much current.
The right course of action when a fuse blows is to investigate if it blew because something drew too much current and presumably the pump drew too much current, possibly because it had an internal fault.
BobW 2:56PM (12/16/2008)
Clarkson did say it took 16 hours to charge on a *15 amp socket*. Most owners hook wire up a 220v charger adapter in the garage. This reduces charge times to 3.5 hours. 220v sockets might be harder to find on a trip.
Reply
meme 3:54PM (12/16/2008)
You can often make a 240V socket out of two 120Vs. Get a 240V power strip and cut off its plug. To one of the lives, connect the live from a 120V plug. To the other live, connect the live from another 120V plug. Hook the neutral and ground up to the neutral and ground of both plugs. Use screw connectors. Re-insulate. Plug in the plugs to two non-GFI 120V sockets. If the light on the strip comes on, you've found two 120V sockets on opposite phases, and it'll work. If not, try different sockets until it does. You're basically reconstructing the original split-phase power.
Note that they have to be non-GFI outlets. The current return path isn't the same, so GFI outlets will trip.
There are commercial products that do this that sell for $145-$160, although it's cheaper to make your own. I haven't seen anyone who's done this, but I'd imagine you could also up the amp rating by connecting together 120V plugs of the same phase. Obviously you'd need suitable gauge wiring and connectors. If anyone knows more about whether that works or not (and how safe it is to do so), I'd be interested.
rob 7:20PM (12/16/2008)
In the UK (and a big chunk of the rest of the world), household current is 220V...
Amtoro 10:03AM (12/17/2008)
Sockets in the UK ARE 220V, 15A giving you approximately 3.3 kW. The roadster has a 53 kWh battery pack that at that rate takes 16 hours to charge (at not-quite-realistic 100% charger efficiency).
In the US, at 110V,15A it would take 32 hours unless you use Tesla's high power charger (which by my calculations should be in the order of 220V, 70A (yikes!)
The advantage in Europe, Japan, Argentina and other countries that use 220V is that they can get twice as much power than us from a wall charger anywhere, the fact that the voltage is higher does not make the wires any thicker as the amperage is the same and that is what controls the wire gauge needs.
BobW 11:15AM (12/17/2008)
In the USA a 225v outlet is usually reserved for clothes dryers. It's a 30 amp circuit. I should think European dryers use a comparable circuit. That would cut charge time to a little over half, maybe 8.5 hours.
The Tesla charger adapter (the charger is actually on board the car) has to be specially wired up. If the line to the house won't support the full load then of course the charge time increases beyond the stated 3.5 hours.
In September 2007 Martin Eberhard asked readers of the Tesla Motors blog to send information for a survey of house electrical capacities.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=53#more-53
I imagine a similar survey of European housing might be helpful.
Rich 12:24PM (12/17/2008)
Houses in the U.S. commonly have a 3-phase supply for high-wattage equipment such as cookers, dryers, and AC units.
In Europe, because the standard domestic supply is 220V at 13A (UK) or 10A (mainland), there's no need for a 3-phase domestic supply, because this is sufficient for dryers and ovens. Domestic AC is very uncommon.
So, while it is simple for Tesla owners in the US to have a 3h30m charger at their home(s), in Europe, you're looking at Clarkson's fairly accurate charge time.
dlm3 3:54PM (12/18/2008)
Um, not quite. Most residential home panels are single-phase, not three phase. You get two phases and a neutral, so you can get 120V from phase to ground or 220V phase-to-phase. Very few home appliances are three phase (and those few likely to be high end and expensive).
Woodworking equipment is another matter (also likely to be found in a residential garage) and three-phase motors are likewise rare for consumer or hobbyist grade equipment. Having an extra phase wired to one's home requires a large expenditure
A 15A 220VAC circuit is just that - you can't pull more out of it without tripping the breaker. Most Tesla owners will likely have a 30A (or more) outlet installed in their garage solely for charging their vehicle.
why not the LS2LS7? 12:58AM (1/01/2009)
Houses aren't three phase or single phase, they're split phase. The have two legs of power 180 degrees out of phase. You can get 120V by going from either phase to neutral (which is a fancy name for ground) or 220V by going from one phase to another.
Having 3 phase would require not adding just one more leg, but at least two more, because you need 3 legs that are 120 degrees out of phase.
In Europe, a house will have 30A or more available. In the UK many even will have 30A circuits, just each plug is fused at less. In Europe though, there is 240V available between line and neutral, I don't believe they ever go line to line (split phase). I don't know how you get more than 30A in Europe, and you'll want more than 30A to charge fastest.
I believe Tesla recommends a 70A 220V circuit for max charge speed. Anything below 40A will take noticeably longer than 3.5 hours to charge a fully discharged Tesla Roadster.
I would mention again that Tesla does not recommend you charge at the top rate every time, because it will reduce the battery pack life expectancy.
mmstowes 2:56PM (12/16/2008)
While I don't necessarily agree with the review, Tesla clearly markets the vehicle as a "sports car". Sure, we can blame Clarkson for making it sound like there was a genuine brake failure, but do we know if Clarkson knew all that needed to be done was replace the fuse? No. But the idea of a "sports car" is to be able to do what the manufacturer says right off the showroom floor. If it can't, it can't. This was Porsche's arguement against the NSX. They took it out and the brakes caught fire because of the pads Honda used from the factory (which weren't in the original design). Does that mean it's not a great sports car? Of course not. The car was praised universally and to this day is still considered the foundation for many of our modern supercars.
But if you have to replace a fuse or brake pads, what's the difference? The car didn't necessarily do what you said it was going to do without modification without incident. Of course, most owners will never do this with the car, but does that mean Porsche or Ferrari shouldn't make F430 Scuderias or GT3 RS'? Because they'll only end up in someone's garage, never driven, only turned on to load them on the trailer? Of course not.
But come on, you're upset about how Top Gear, of all people, are testing a vehicle? Imagine that...
Tesla isn't the savior of the world. Having driven one, it's okay, but it's most certainly not perfect. Elon has you folks sippin' his ego-flavored Kool-Aid. I can't speculate how Europe would charge their vehicles, so I dunno whether it would take 3.5 hours or 16, but just the same, since she didn't actually qualify Tesla's arguement against Clarkson, perhaps she should've issued something when she had facts, instead of a "PR" statement. Not wanting to speculate is one thing, but not providing facts...why should I believe her over Clarkson? Because she said so? Yeah...okay. Again, I don't necessarily agree with the review, however, that doesn't mean there's not another side to the story.
Reply
Dave 3:54PM (12/16/2008)
People aren't upset about Top Gear testing the car - finding shortcomings is what the programme is about - they are complaining that they had to throw some untruths in there just to make it look a bit worse.
Emptying the "tank" in 55 miles (real or calculated) is not "real world". It's like getting 1.7mpg in the 599, I'd be surprised if any real 599 driver ever saw that. Yet blogs all over the place are saying "great commuter car - if you live 27.5 miles from work". It's not accurate and it is highly damaging - made even worse by the utterly rose-tinted report on the FCX. It's not just on TV either - they have run glowing articles on the FCX in the past two (yes *two) Top Gear magazines in the UK.
The lasting image will be a car stuck on the track or being pushed in to the garage. Yet if you know the Roadster, you will know that it doesn't just die like that, you get a lot of warning that the juice is low. That is the kind of embellishment that comes with somebody's agenda and nothing else.
Stan Wellaway 3:10PM (12/16/2008)
220/24v sockets are the norm in the UK. So no problem for UK buyers.
Jeremy Clarkson is an entertainer. Many of his laughs are at the expense of anything remotely green or environmental. The whole tone of the show is fun, based heavily on insults and mockery. No need for Tesla fans to get too upset. The show was only doing what it always does.
That said, there were some notable plusses among the comments Clarkson made. And knowing how his mind works, he will genuinely remember the good points - particularly out-accelerating the Lotus.
Sending him letters of complaint will prove counterproductive - he will merely perform some other stunt with those. Don't tempt him!
James May, I agree, was too easily seduced.
Reply
Stan Wellaway 5:19PM (12/16/2008)
220/240v was what I meant to say earlier (the univerally available sockets across the UK)
nie-mehr-benzin.de 3:15PM (12/16/2008)
It seems to me that these petrolheads simply sniffed too much petrol ;)
Reply
jake 3:24PM (12/16/2008)
And Rachel did try to present some facts, such as pushing the car into the hanger; that is quite misleading. Then there's also the brakes being broken that wasn't explained very well. The charging thing I think Clarkson did mention something about faster charging, but I have to see the footage again to check. Overall she's just trying to present the Tesla's side of the story and let us draw our own conclusions. We have all seen Top Gear's side of the story.
The thing is people keep saying sports car = track car. Tesla said their car was NOT a track car (even went on Autoblog and said it publically). How hard is that to understand? And on the whole if the car really was pushed into the hanger on purpose for show (I speculate that it's to provide support of the image that with a battery car you'll be stranded somewhere and then deal a death blow with the Clarity about the freedom from range anxiety), it leaves less faults of the Roadster. The overheating bit we already know from before happens when it's driven at max power, high speeds for extended periods (major reason Roadster not track ready). The only thing which the Roadster has failed unexpectedly was the braking fuse failure. That part I agree with you that it shouldn't have happened regardless of track car or not.
Reply
meme 3:54PM (12/16/2008)
Not to mention that any car will have its range horribly slashed if you race it flat-out -- electric *or* gas. At top speed, the Bugatti Veyron gets 2.46mpg, but gets 9.76mpg in the EPA combined cycle tests. The Veyron has a 26 gallon tank, so let's do the math:
EPA range: 269.76 miles
Flat-out range: 63.96 miles
Gee, what a shock -- it barely beats the Roadster in terms of range.
montoym 3:55AM (12/17/2008)
@ meme:
But, you can then spend a few minutes refilling the Veyron's tank with gasoline and you're back on your way.
There are no 3.5hr-16hr waits like the Tesla. Basically, the Tesla takes(in the quickest possible fashion) 42 times as long to refuel(recharge) than a typical gas-powered vehicle. Using rough figures of 3.5hr(210min) for the Tesla and 5mins for a gas vehicle.
That is the main point.