Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, Honda, BYD
Honda president pooh-poohs BYD, electric cars in general
Honda president Takeo Fukui has been known to downplay the future role of plug-in cars in the automotive marketplace even as his company plays up the fuel cell technology that he claims will be available for the masses by 2018 (even if it will be somewhat expensive). In a recent interview to Chinese website auto.163.com, he said that EV tech is still "immature" with the main problem being the batteries. He thinks that current electric cars can only achieve a 100 km (62 mile) range and that makes mass production and commercialization difficult. Not dissuaded by the CEO's position on EVs, the interviewer went on to ask what he thought of BYD's electric vehicle R&D efforts, Fukui replied that they weren't very good. Ouch.
While it's possible that Fukui-sama hasn't been informed about the 244-mile range achieved by the Tesla Roadster or, indeed, of the 120-mile range achieved by an efficiently-shaped Aptera, we suspect that his mind is made up and Honda will stick with its hydrogen hopes and upcoming hybrid. At least while he remains at the helm.
Gallery: Beijing 2008: BYD e6
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[Source: Gasgoo]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
gorr 2:49PM (11/25/2008)
All these incompetants, honda and the rest will be out of work because they refused to put a water electrolyser in their cars and this is the thing that is really a game changing invention. They know that but they are afraid of leading this project into reality. They cannot admit having bound thier paying customers to a unnessary system of taxation. So they skip the truth forever and try to convince us that they are great car builder, LOL.
They sell old fart inneficient defective and unsustainable car architecture with no future and they know it. Its the politicians and banks that rule car industry from the ground up and these brand name cars should be labelled 'world bank of wall street car compagny' .
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John Rowell 11:37PM (11/25/2008)
Water electrolyzer?! Can't believe some people still believe in those gimmicks... (nothing personal ofc)
andrichrose 2:57PM (11/25/2008)
amazingly short sighted , it just shows how blind one can become to other technology when you have put all your
eggs in the hydrogen basket !
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Dustin 9:14AM (11/26/2008)
Actually Honda's eggs are in the robot, jet airplane, gas generator, motorcycle, solar cell, natural gas, hybrid, internal combustion, and hydrogen baskets. What dummies they are...
UH2L 3:08PM (11/25/2008)
It shows that even execs at Japanese companies can have firm opinions against mainstream environmentalists. Should we all boycott Honda now? No. But we shouldn't have been so harsh on execs at other companies either. They all have their opinions that are meant to publicly favor their companies' strategies.
What's funny is that 62 miles range is good enough for the daily needs of probably 75% of drivers here, and the Volt's 40 miles is good for a significant portion as well.
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Domenick Yoney 3:15PM (11/25/2008)
I don't mean to be harsh on the guy. He's obviously pretty smart to be where he is and if he doesn't want to build an electric car, that's fine. Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan will have all that much more elbow room.
Red 4:49PM (11/25/2008)
Fukui never said electric vehicles wouldn't be a part of Honda's future, which you suggested twice. Obviously, if Honda's been working on fuel cell technology, they're likely to be working on a battery-electric only vehicle since the FCX IS an electric vehicle (albeit one that uses hydrogen fuel). What you're saying is the equivalent of Fukui saying, "we've got the foundation for an electric vehicle because we're working on a vehicle that uses an electric propulsion system instead of an internal combustion engine. But we're not ever going to work on an electric vehicle". How much sense does that make?
And Fukui's comments about battery technology are entirely accurate. EV tech IS immature. Much of the R&D process is still in its infancy; most manufacturers aren't even sure where to start (take GM, for example, shopping around interest in developing the Volt's batteries). There have been several advancements that have yet to be debuted, but you're not seriously going to use Tesla as an arguing point, are you? Honda's bread-and-butter isn't in the "$120,000 toy with a $20,000 battery" market (Musk said last week the true cost is $140,000). Therefore, a 62mpg range ain't gonna cut it for a company interested in mainstreaming an electric vehicle at an affordable price. The Aptera, while certainly interesting, isn't as practical as Honda's typical customer likely wants. It's about as practical as the original Insight hybrid, and we all know how well that sold for Honda, compared to the Prius, despite consistently superior fuel efficiency.
The Aptera's Nickel-Zinc batteries may be of interest to Honda, however, as alternatives to Nickel-metal hydride in the future of Honda's hybrid system. But rest assured, Honda will continue its research into lithium ion technology through projects like the FCX Clarity, it will continue developing its supercapacitors and whatever else they're working on.
Mark 3:16PM (11/25/2008)
Big Oil sell out..
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DARE-TO-DREAM 3:21PM (11/25/2008)
Takeo Fukui is clueless. Honda is not a battery maker. Fukui's opinion is worthless. BYD is light years ahead in commercializing LIFEPO4 technology comparing to any other players in this market. This is why Warren Buffett bought 10% of this company. The Oracle of Omaha has faith in BYD. Takeo Fukui has no vision.
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PSmith 3:30PM (11/25/2008)
Then either he hasn't seen the film Who Killed the The Electric Car, or researched Stan and Irish Ovshinsky and the Cobasys NiMH battery suppression, or listened to Doug Korthof via his youtube channel liveoilfree. And he certainly is aware of the Cobasys story, IMO.
OR he is spreading disinformation because his company is restrained from manufacturing battery electric vehicles (BEVs) using the Ovshinsky Cobasys NiMH battery. A poor show. More people telling the truth and d@mn the torpedos is what the world needs, IMO.
See suggested EVs - WHO TO TRUST? via comments (URL limit three DOH!) at http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/27/gm-battery-supplier-cobasys-in-bad-financial-shape/
Become immune to FUD - do the reading :-)
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Tim 4:15PM (11/25/2008)
Sounds like Takeo Fukui has been reading the GM playbook. Head up, face behind you and use where you've been to tell where you're going. This guy needs to pull his head out of his butt before he leads his company into the same trap that's killing the the Big 3.
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Yanquetino 4:58PM (11/25/2008)
I might be completely off-base, but would anyone be surprised if in 2010 Honda produces a pure EV, which they are actually developing in stealth mode even as we type? From what I've seen, they are formidable at holding their cards close to their chest, and Takeo Fukui has what I would call a quintessential poker face.
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John Rowell 11:40PM (11/25/2008)
You may be right. Only time will tell. I for one wouldn't be surprised.
Chris M 11:56PM (11/25/2008)
Could be, but it would risk suppressing the EV market they'd want to exploit. A better strategy would be to just keep quiet until ready for production, then promote the heck out of it
Stan Wellaway 5:48PM (11/25/2008)
Battery swap stations, where depleted batterypacks can be exchanged for recharged ones as quickly as filling a gas tank, will kill off the argument over EV distance limitations.
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Mike!!ekiM 6:01PM (11/25/2008)
It's more likely he's spreading dis-information to keep the Chinese out of the market. But, I can't understand how he's still sinking money into that black hole of Hydrogen Hype. Only a FOOL would continue to waste 1 red cent on Hydrogen, if he has any knowledge of the battery tech that's coming.
So, is he a smart card player attempting to keep the market for the Japanese? or is he grossly misinformed, and therefore, should be replaced.
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Chris M 12:03AM (11/26/2008)
Unfortunately, all too often top executives get surrounded by sycophants that tell them only what they want to hear and never uncomfortable truths. In this case, the junior execs won't tell Fukui how unlikely it is that H2 fuel cell cars will ever be economically competitive. Of course, the engineers certainly will never say that it is a bad idea, doing that would cause them to loose face and loose their job.
Throwback 6:34PM (11/25/2008)
Honda has made few (any?) mistakes in the last ten years. My guess is Honda is working on a EV, but he is correct battery tech is immature. The reason is cost. Sure you can build an EV that goes 200 miles, but it will cost 100k see Tesla. When it comes to fuel efficient cars Honda is on the leading edge. How many of you on here have run a profitable car company? My guess is Fukui knows what he doing and how to make a profitable vehicle no matter how it is powered.
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Gary 11:09AM (11/26/2008)
Except for the styling mistakes they've been doing lately...
You'd think that Hondas were driven by blind people.
jake 6:52PM (11/25/2008)
I suspect Honda has something up their sleeve in besides from the FCX Clarity (which does have the EV drivetrain and a smaller li-ion pack to act as a buffer so that there is some EV experience, though not really because the way you drive and use it is still significantly different than a normal EV or PHEV). They are smart enough to get to this point so I expect them to prepare for the near future when EVs and PHEVs are starting to hit the market.
I refuse to believe Honda doesn't even have some experimental EVs/PHEVs like Toyota does with their plug-in prius.
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