Filed under: Hybrid, Legislation and Policy, Green Daily, USA
Come 2009, U.S. tax credits will exist mostly for large, low-MPG hybrids
click for more images of the 2009 Toyota Prius
What's in a number? For hybrid buyers, the number 60,000 is an important one. As you might know, when Congress enacted the particular hybrid tax credit, they set a limit of 60,000 vehicles per manufacturer to get the discount, and the more popular hybrids now do not qualify for any government assistance. The Toyota bonus ran out a year ago and, as soon as 2008 is over, the Honda hybrids will no longer qualify, leaving just 16 models that can be used to claim the credit in 2009. Green Car Advisor put together a list of these models and the crazy thing is, only one gets more than 33 mpg (the 2007-08 Nissan Altima Hybrid). The rest of the government money will go towards encouraging people to buy the unwanted large hybrids from Ford and GM. Where is the sense in this?
Gallery: 2009 Toyota Prius
[Source: Green Car Advisor]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JF 8:26PM (11/12/2008)
"...encouraging people to buy the unwanted large hybrids from Ford and GM."
Last time I checked people were waiting 3 months or longer for Escape hybrids. How could you possibly consider them "unwanted?"
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mike 7:36AM (11/13/2008)
I would not consider them unwanted, just like I would also not consider them to be large SUVs like the article states
Max 9:18PM (11/12/2008)
It's no coincidence.
It's a law that promotes U.S. made vehicles besides encouraging fuel efficiency.
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ltclloyd 9:30PM (11/12/2008)
Here is the sense:
those big hybrids save more fuel then a prius ever will. A yaris will get close to 40mpg under normal driving. where a prius might get 50. 25% savings. drive 20,000 miles a year. or a savings of 100 gallons.
If someone needs a big vehicle for towing etc. and gets to choose a hybrid which gets 35% better mileage then it's normal model. it gets 50% better mileage 'round town and 10% on the highway so the number is close at 26% gain.. the same 20,000 miles in the tahoe hybrid saves. 246 gallons a year.
while people may still be gun shy on buying big SUV's it's nice to have this option for those that need one. and the tax credit might take a bit of the sting out of the $10,000 price premium.
while I'm still a fan of choosing a smaller vehicle over getting a hybrid. the whole reason the Prius works is because it gives the buyer a mid size car with micro car mileage.
Lets start getting angry at the government for not allowing the Car makers to sell the awesome 50-60mpg diesels the rest of the world gets. there is no reason we can't align with euro-5+ we are talking fractions of a gram of co2 per mile difference between Tier2 bin 5 and Euro-6.
you Exhale 900 Grams of C02 a day.. these regulations are just getting crazy. where the driver of the car is putting out more Carbon then the car.
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Chris M 9:45PM (11/12/2008)
Of course, going from a 15 mpg SUV to a 50 mpg Prius would save 933 gallons over 20,000 miles, about 3.8 times more gas saved than with the Tahoe hybrid...
The problem with Diesels isn't the CO2, it is the NOx, CO, unburned hydrocarbons, and particulates. Only recently has diesel technology improved enough to make diesels marginally acceptable - but those improvements carry a high price.
RSR 9:42AM (11/13/2008)
Diesel's trouble in the US is NOx more than anything else now. The real trouble is the inflexibility of our emission regulation that does not allow advanced technology because it's not perfect yet. For the reason American market does not see lean operating mode for gasoline direct injection engines (lean burning increases NOx-- the same reason diesel combustion has high NOx). Audi has lean mode in their GDI cars in Europe, but has to disable it in the US market to meet the emission law.
For this reason I think the government should share the blame for not helping us to see better fuel economy vehicles on the road. When we ask automakers for better fuel economy, we have to give them hands where we can.
Dsuupr 11:18AM (11/13/2008)
Not all of us can use a prius as a daily vehicle. I happen to be a disabled person who lives in the country and need the extra space of a "large" vehicle. Our "trucks" are frequently in 4-wheel drive out of need to get us from point A to point B.
At this time we get to use Cellulosic Ethanol (less CO2 and oil than a prius) to do our part for the environment, however it would be nice if I could have the best of both worlds.
frankbank 9:45PM (11/12/2008)
ltclloyd has it exactly right. The big hybrids actually save more fuel than the small ones. The tax credit comes from the gov't so it totally makes sense that the credit is congruent with the gov't regulations and the US national interest.
1) CAFE - is consumption based
2) CO2 (soon to be regulated) which is consumption based.
3) The government's energy security issue is a consumption issue.
So as a reporter, Sebastian, you need to do just a little analysis and homework before broadcasting you first auto-poser thought.
On the other hand, if you dislike US branded products, because of some kind of and Iraq guilt thing or maybe an unresolved father-son relationship, you can always cough up the extra $ and buy a perfectly good and smaller car conceived, developed, and financed in another country.
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Scatter 3:20AM (11/13/2008)
I'm sure Sebastian's well aware of the % gains issue but the fact stands that even a hybrid SUV is still a gas guzzler and it's crazy to subsidise these monsters.
killroy 10:53PM (11/12/2008)
ltclloyd and frankbank,
Most people do not need a SUV to go too and from work alone, so I would not say that SUVs save fuel.
http://www.treehugger.com/galleries/ride_with_hitler.jpg
In the uncommon case that someone actually needs a SUV then, yes SUV vs. HEV SUV does make a good % improvement, but the government should not have to give credits, they should sell themselves as lower life cycle cost, just like hybrid buses have a lower live cycle costs.
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Mike!!ekiM 11:38PM (11/12/2008)
Killroy: Most people do not need a SUV to go too and from work alone, so I would not say that SUVs save fuel.
Sorry, when I look out my window ALL I see is One person in a TRUCK or SUV, except if the truck is towing lawnmowers. People make bad choices. They act as if these SUV's are like Diamond Rings.
Mike!!ekiM 11:40PM (11/12/2008)
Sorry, I didn't see your "not" in that sentence. It's late, I'm tired, zzzzz.....
tankd0g 11:44PM (11/12/2008)
Yawn, not hard to tell what site this is... Do you really think in todays economy, people who don't have a valid use for them are still buying SUVs? GM wishes that were true.
Nick 11:50PM (11/12/2008)
Does one 'need' a Tahoe ?
It's not really off-road capable..more an on-road vehicle.
It's decently roomy (minivans / crossovers are too).
99% of people I see driving them are alone and in town, not towing anything, occasionally sporting some big-o chrome wheels and some bling.
Tahoes are useless vehicles for 99.9% of their owners.
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sydbot 12:40AM (11/13/2008)
Says the guy who's never off-roaded a Tahoe. Although, the one time my friends and I took a Tahoe off-roading, we did get it stuck. (to be fair, it was in the same spot a much better tire equipped Z71 GMC pickup had also gotten stuck)
chispito 5:12PM (11/13/2008)
Maybe if you didn't spend your whole time in town, you'd see what some people use them for out of town?
There is more than just recreational off roading, you know. My brother needs 4WD just to get up his driveway during long stretches of the winter. Add in his wife and four kids and a Prius would be an incredibly stupid purchase.
VijV 1:28AM (11/13/2008)
frankbank ......you've got a point there...with the Big SUV hybrids saving fuel...but you've got to realise...the point of the government is to promote lower fuel usage...... havign a special benefit for SUV;s with hybrids only encourages people to buy them.
And Tankdog...I think it's a very common thing...even in todays economy that people want bigger things....and things they dont really need......take a look at few months back...when the oil prices in the US went down....the first thing that happened were higher sales of Trucks and SUV's.......proof that people are not thinking long term.....
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state 7:19AM (11/13/2008)
"The rest of the government money will go towards encouraging people to buy the unwanted large hybrids from Ford and GM. Where is the sense in this?"
You elected the nuts! The Democrats have controlled Congress for 2 years. Talk to them.
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LaughingMan 11:33AM (11/13/2008)
The tax credit that we're talking about was cooked up by the Republican controlled Congress before 2006, when the Democrats came into power.
anoldbikeguy 9:25AM (11/13/2008)
So many of you are total hypocrites - its the same tax break that you thought was wonderful when it applied to the Prius!
So, since Toyota has exceeded the sixty thousand vehicle limit of the tax break, now it is wrong for the 'evil' domestic OEM's to qualify for the same thing?
You are so transparent it is pathetic.
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