Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, Saturn
Saturn Vue plug-in hybrid delayed to 2011
During the General Motors third quarter earnings (or lack thereof) conference call on Friday, company executives discussed the vehicle introduction schedule for 2009 and 2010. Several cars that had been expected to debut during 2009 have been pushed back to the following year, including the Saab 9-4X and Cadillac CTS Coupe. GM declined to discuss any vehicles beyond the 2010 calendar year. One vehicle that notable by its absence in the list of vehicle launches is the Saturn Vue plug-in hybrid. The two-mode hybrid version of the Vue is launching production right about now and the first drives are due in about a month. The plug-in variant that was expected to launch late in 2009, although GM has never given an official date, only approximate targets. A late 2009 production launch would have made the Vue among the first, if not the first production PHEVs on market. During the call, GM president Fritz Henderson explained that the list was not exhaustive. At this point we're still waiting to hear more from GM on the fate of the PHEV Vue.
Gallery: Detroit 2008: Saturn Vue Two-Modes
[Source: CNN Money]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
why not the LS2LS7? 12:41PM (11/09/2008)
That's a bit of a drag. But in the end, I think that plug-ins with no zero-emissions range won't be huge sellers. Especially with gas at $2.50!
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BoneHeadOtto 8:02PM (11/09/2008)
yeah and the Prius that debuted when gas was $1.45 wasnt a huge success either was it. Point is that the Prius started out as the car for people making a statement about the environment. Only later did it become the money saving car. A plugin hybrid makes an even bigger statement. Many Many people would jump at the chance to drive a car with zero emissions (at the car) and the potential to spend far far less on gas when/if gas hits $5 a gallon... (read next summer)
Plus the sooner we get battery production up the sooner the prices come down. I fully expect everyone to be driving plugin parallel or series hybrids. It will be the exception to have a car without electric power of some sort.
tankd0g 9:09PM (11/09/2008)
Apt name, Bonehead. The Prius was a flop when it came out, it required government funding just to get a few granola munchers to buy it. GM can't afford such long shot.
why not the LS2LS7? 2:35PM (11/10/2008)
BoneHeadOtto:
The Prius was a success only in a few places when gas was cheap. I do happen to live in one of those places though!
And thus I can tell you from speaking to Prius owners from that era, that they were juiced about the IDEA of using less gas more than the actual savings.
And thus my point. A PHEV with zero-emissions range, if used at all properly, will use a lot less gas (perhaps even going the work week without using any) than this vehicle here. Thus I think that select crowd who cared more about using less gas on principle than the actual money savings will be much more excited by a PHEV with some zero-emissions range.
Mike Z. 1:33PM (11/09/2008)
In the short term, it makes sense to slow down the development. Oil prices will only go up when the economy recovers and in that instance there will actually be a market for the ~50-60mpg PHEV SUV.
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gorr 7:29PM (11/09/2008)
Is it the same architecture as the afs-trinity?
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Chris M 1:05AM (11/15/2008)
No. This is the other GM plug-in hybrid project. Unlike the Series Hybrid Volt, the Saturn Vue plug-in hybrid is a modified "dual mode" hybrid, using a smaller hybrid transmission and a bigger battery pack than the one in their Tahoe hybrid.
The AFS Trinity design is a series hybrid with an added ultracapacitor to buffer the power flow to the battery.
BoneHeadOtto 8:02PM (11/09/2008)
so one thing i dont understand about the Vue Hybrid, is why didnt they make this car with a 4cylinder rather than the 3.6L v6. Or atleast offer both options. 2 mode is incredibly efficient and GM is just plain stupid however for only putting it in SUVs. They really need this hybrid tech in the Malibu. It is far more efficient than their current mild hybrid. What GM needs is an extremely efficient car in their fleet that can go toe to toe with the Prius. It might not make them much money but it would show that they have tech as good as toyota in the hybrid arena.
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Sam Abuelsamid 8:03PM (11/09/2008)
Unfortunately for GM anything that doesn't make money right now, is something they simply can't afford.
BoneHeadOtto 8:16PM (11/09/2008)
UM so price it to make money. I guarantee that a sedan with a 4cylinder and a 2mode hybrid costs less to make than a Vue with a 3.6L and a 2mode hybrid. Plus the more fuel efficient the car the more tax rebate you get these days. Im surprised they can make any money on this hybrid vue.
But its that kind of short sighted business practices that have bit GM over and over again. So im not surprised.
tankd0g 9:09PM (11/09/2008)
Bonehead, they can't afford either one.
BoneHeadOtto 11:11PM (11/09/2008)
Very true. But that applies to all their cars sold.
RSR 10:06AM (11/10/2008)
Price it to make money? It took Toyota 10 years and a million of it to break even with Prius, not to profit. And people already complained Prius was too expensive. GM is also subsidizing cost of their two-mode hybrid vehicles.
While I agree that GM's two-mode hybrid is very efficient and advanced, it's not an easy decision to put that system in every model especially when they're on a life line. Also remember that it takes 3 - 4 years to develop a new vehicle.
And I believe GM has been working on a full hybrid version of Malibu anyway, for which, I dare guess, would not be so profitable.
BoneHeadOtto 10:22AM (11/10/2008)
@RSR
yeah im not saying put it in every vehicle, i just cannot figure out why GM would spend to time and money to put it in a 4000+lb SUV with a 3.6L v6. SUVs are too expensive and inefficient to begin with. Why put your crown jewel of fuel efficiency in a package that makes it less efficient and more expensive. It was just a dumb decision on GMs part.
why not the LS2LS7? 2:37PM (11/10/2008)
BoneHeadOtto:
They're working on it!
This two-mode system started in busses, now is in the full-size SUV (like the Tahoe) and will next go into small SUVs. It appears they are scaling it down one step at a time.
GSP 8:46PM (11/09/2008)
"A late 2009 production launch would have made the Vue among the first, if not the first production PHEVs on market."
Don't forget the Audi Duo!
http://www.audi.com.au/audi/au/en2/experience/studies/q7_hybrid_concept/hybrid_history.html
GSP
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BoneHeadOtto 11:27PM (11/09/2008)
Hey tankD0ggyDog, when the prius came out it was proving a market and inventing a segment. The original was a low volume research project but by no means was it a flop. It changed the direction of the ENTIRE automotive industry. It was govt supported (i assume you mean by jap govt supporting toyota) but so are all hybrids. Remember we get tax credits for purchasing hybrids in the states. Im just saying that GM has its head up its @$$ for making a v6 SUV hybrid when it could get a lot more market traction by putting that drivetrain in a car rather than a 4000+ lb SUV.
And BTW- do you really think GM is NOT govt supported. It should be making efficient hybrids. What else is GM using its bailout money for anyway. GM is far more govt supported than Toyota. Only difference it that Toyota makes money and GM looses many times the amount of money Toyota makes. But no worries, GM will be gone soon enough. Either that or our tax money will keep it afloat for a few more years, then it will go bankrupt.
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tankd0g 11:50PM (11/09/2008)
Boneheadotto, you are either misinformed or have a short memory. By government supported I mean BIG FAT TAX REBATES by AMERICAN GOVERNMENTS for buying one. If gas prices has stayed what they were in the 90s, the Prius would still be a quirky little car for the Ed Begley juniors of the world. No one wanted one of these things in 2001, not at the price they were asking anyway.
Prius sales didn't even become worthy of note until 2005, selling at a loss to Toyota for most of those years, and even now, in 2008, the Prius still only moves 10% as many units as the Camry. If the Prius belonged to a company that didn't have as much money to burn as Toyota it would have died in 2003.
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BoneHeadOtto 8:47AM (11/10/2008)
Tankd0g did you read my previous post. I mentioned those big fat tax rebates you are typing in ALL CAPS about. So your point is that the Prius was a flop because the govt supported it with tax rebates and that IF gas was still $1 a gallon like it was in the 90s the car would not be successful.
So the reason tax rebates exist for efficient vehicles is for two reasons. To reduce the amount of oil we as a country use (thus lowering gas prices). And to reduce the amount of environmental damage we do by supporting cars that pollute less. And i think to a degree those incentives are successful.
For that same reason the govt is giving future volt owners a $7500 tax credit. http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm Are you going to say that the Volt can never be successful because the govt supports it and no one would buy it if gas was at the levels of the early 90s? The point is that gas is getting way more expensive from here on out and consumers are only starting to realize how important vehicles like the Prius are.
Its strange to me that your points are that
A) if the market conditions were different the Prius would not be successful so therefore it is a flop
B) GM cant afford to make cars more efficient
The whole point of this discussoin is to point out that GM is making a BIG BIG BIG mistake by putting a 2-mode in a heavy v6 SUV rather than a Prius like smaller car with a 4cylinder. They cant afford to miss the opportunity of putting the 2-mode in the proper car.
tankd0g 9:35AM (11/10/2008)
Again, you miss the mark. government rebates on the Prius and the Volt are the result of LOBBYING, nothing else. Your government does not give a shit about oil consumption, nor are they stupid enough to think selling a handful of people a more efficient car will make a difference. Gas prices are falling now, if todays price is the price in 2011, the Volt is done for. It is not a foregone conclusion that gas prices will rise again in the next 3 years. Betting your company that they will is a very dangerous game to be playing when you are already on the brink of destruction.