Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid
Johnson Controls: electric cars will eventually win out
Electric. Hybrid. Plug-in Hybrid, clean diesel and hydrogen fuel cells. With so many differing types of green technology fighting for the chance to lure the green from your pocketbook, you may wonder which of these fuel-saving technologies will end up the winner. Well, that depends on who you ask. Clean diesel holds some promise, and there is a good chance that diesel will make a big push in the next few years. Still, in America, it's the hybrid that's making the biggest splash at the moment, and PHEVs and electric cars seem to be next. Alex Molinaroli, president of Johnson Controls' Power Solutions business (makers of lithium ion batteries), sees things staying as they are. Because there are only so many development dollars to spend, major automakers will need to pick a technology and stick with it, he argues, and that dominant technology will be hybrid cars and, eventually, fully electric cars. What's your take?[Source: Reuters]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Roger 8:52PM (10/09/2008)
I think most cars will be all electric eventually. As long as the charging infrastructure is in place and battery storage meets driver expectations, consumers can then pick and choose whatever fuel is used to generate the electricity: coal, oil, wind, solar, whatever that may be.
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david burgdorff 9:00PM (10/09/2008)
I think it will be years before electric cars are competitive. In the meantime we should use natural gas as a transportation fuel starting with 18 wheelers. If we don't start doing something to get off the foreign oil soon we're in big trouble.
I read somewhere that the average 18 wheeler only lasts an average of 2 1/2 years. If this is true it won't take long to have a big impact.
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Richard 10:36PM (10/09/2008)
18 wheelers engines are designed to last millions of miles, and when they cost in the 100k they'd better last more than 2.5 years.
As far as electric cars are concerned, they are already invented, what more needs to be developed except the range and durability of the battery? All said, though, batteries are good enough now as represented by the fact that so many companies are pursuing elec cars. Bring them on!!!!!
paulwesterberg 11:39AM (10/10/2008)
Freight traffic needs to be moved to electrified rail lines which would be an order of magnitude more efficient and make our economy much less susceptible to fluctuations in oil prices.
asus 3:00AM (10/13/2008)
Well then maybe they should introduce the A4 4cyl TDI to the US Market? Seems pretty logical to me..
asus 3:03AM (10/13/2008)
Stupid autofill... anyways the audi comment was from another post. What I meant to post was:
Long distance truck travel is really a dumb idea. Freight on rail lines, except for "last mile" kind of stuff, makes way more sense. They should just scrap 18 wheelers altogether...
Jon 9:29PM (10/09/2008)
The dominant technology will be electric, because it allows for any and all ultimate sources of fuel. It is therefore ultimately the cheapest and safest investment.
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Noz 9:47PM (10/09/2008)
MAN...I can't wait...I love the fact that they'll be so quiet, so smooth.
I can't engine sounds anymore...it's just noise, dirt, pollution, smell...
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NoMoreSmoke 11:24PM (10/09/2008)
Electric is the way to go. The Chevy Volt is a good start. Hopefully the final destination is to swap out the range extender generator with a fuel cell that would operate clean and refill quickly. There are some real technical hurdles there, but just remember where computers were in the 70's.
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Chris M 1:14AM (10/10/2008)
The transition will take decades, but the ultimate winner is electric. No other motive power is cleaner, more efficient or more compact than the electric motor. The only remaining question is how best to overcome the short range/long trip/slow recharge problem - there are 3 very good possibilities:
1. Improved batteries. Existing LiIon can achieve over 200 miles, and there is the possibility of improving that by 5x or more.
2. Quick Swap batteries. Needs standardization and a few technical details worked out, but no major barriers to implementation.
3. Powered roadways to provide electrical power "on the go". Several technical issues need to be addressed, but it would provide virtually unlimited range, even with small battery packs.
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JanS 2:41AM (10/10/2008)
In the Netherlands by TNO a Electr. Variable Transmission is devolped. No starter, no clutch, no gearbox, no dynamo just a ICE on outgoing shaft a rotor inclosed by a other rotor coupeld on the wheels and off course a stator. You drive electric, if the battery get low (small or large) the ICE kicks in.
Regen and not used energy stored. This make a serial hybrid.
The idee is from 1909 Ferdinand Porsche. Most important the fuel advantage 45% to a automatic car. The speed the same als a average car and 1 sec quicker. http://www.tno.nl/content.cfm?context=markten&content=case&laag1=196&item_id=646
The website is dutch but picture's saying a lot.
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Marshal 2:44AM (10/10/2008)
Electric cars may win out. They have some advantages in that they are quiet, low emissions, and can be charged (indirectly) from many different electricity sources, some of which are renewable. They also can dispense with a mechanical transmission, driveshaft, and differential, to say nothing of the gasoline engine, gas tank, and related hardware. They are easy to attach active vehicle controls to, such as traction control. Regenerative braking is also easy to design for electrics.
They have two major problems, however - charging time and horsepower. You can't draw more than 2 horsepower from a standard wall plug. That means you can barely get enough charge for your morning commute in the overnight interval available for charging.
The other problem is more subtle, and probably fixable. A typical battery cable can support about 100 amps continuously. That works out to about 14 horsepower at 100 volts. Many carmakers are reluctant to go above 100 volts for safety reasons, though some electrics operate at higher voltages. Many consumers are reluctant to drive a 14 hp car.
Hence, hybrids. The hybrid locomotive (diesel-electric) completely displaced steam in only 10 years, mostly on the strength of reliability and maintenance. Notice that the parallel hybrid (Prius) has done better than the series hybrid (Volt or Ensight). This is probably due to the power issues described above.
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Dave 3:26AM (10/10/2008)
Marshall, WTF are you talking about?
Today's (and even yesterday's) hybrids are already pushing 200-300-400-500v through their systems, far, far above 100v.
The Insight was 144v.
Gen1 Prius was about 280v.
Gen 2 Prius battery only pumps out about 200v, but has a booster which can boost voltage up to 500v.
Even the EV1 had battery packs which ranged from 120-220v.
Just about everyone already has a 220v, 30A circuit in their house capable of 8hp. And the growth of PHEVs and EVs will quickly encourage more of those circuits as well as higher power circuits.
Val 1:51PM (10/10/2008)
Where are you getting your data from. Electric cars being produced are generating well over 100 hp. And as for the comparison of Prius to the Volt, the car hasn't even hit the road yet but when it does buyers can conceivably drive weeks without fueling. Try that in a Prius
Chris M 12:10AM (10/12/2008)
100 amps or 100 volts are definitely not the limits for EV technology. As has already been pointed out, hybrids are using 144 to 280 volts, the Tesla Roadster goes over 300 volts. Higher amperage is also possible, it just requires thicker cables or multiple cables - 1 set of 100 amp cables could be doubled. 2 set of 100 amp equaling 200 amps total.
A standard 120 volt 15 amp outlet would indeed make for a slow recharge, but most homes could support 240 volt outlets from 30 to 80 amps, for recharges in just a few hours. It isn't necessary to stand around watching it recharge, unlike refilling a gasser, you don't need to worry about fuel spilling all over.
Scatter 2:51AM (10/10/2008)
Is there any company still bothering to talk up hydrogen? It would be quite amusing how rapidly it's dropped off the radar if it wasn't so tragic how much research money and talent has been flushed down the plug hole over the last decade.
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BlackbirdHighway 5:47AM (10/10/2008)
New technology batteries can be recharged in 10 minutes, so I don't see why everyone argues that the recharge times are too long. You can't wait for 10 lousy minutes? Maybe you need to slow down the pace of your life a little bit!
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floorman56 11:34AM (10/10/2008)
New technology batteries can be recharged in 10 minutes,
But only with very special high power one off charge stations that what I heard cost $30,000 each which means before any gas station installs them there had better be LOTS quick recharge car’s on the road , Which then’s takes you back to the problem that car manufactures have not settled on any type of standard on how to do this. I mean right now every car has a different plug ….must less voltage
BlackbirdHighway 5:49AM (10/10/2008)
That was strange, I never clicked on "Add Comment". I was just typing and suddenly the screen refreshed and my comment had added itself!
Any one else experience that?
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TX CHL Instructor 7:46AM (10/10/2008)
I think that both diesel and electric will 'win'. We will eventually run out of dinojuice (actually, we won't completely run out, it'll just become too expensive to burn), but we can grow diesel, and electricity can be generated in several ways. My favorite is solar PV, and there was yet another efficiency breakthrough (nearly 40%) just recently.
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