Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Tesla Motors, Green Daily, USA
How much it will cost to run your electric car
click above for more of Eberhard and his Tesla Roadster
By describing the cost to charge an electric vehicle as "squishy," Martin Eberhard begins a post on his Tesla Founders Blog on the right foot. Seriously. That's because it's a very difficult question to answer and it totally depends on where you live, what company your power is coming from and when you charge it. There are other factors too, such as what, if any, alternative sources you have and how much power you usually use on an average day. To help explain all of these little details, Eberhard has made a spreadsheet based on Northern California's rates from Pacific Gas and Electric.
After doing all the math, Martin figures that it costs him 3.6 cents per mile to run his Roadster. That's more than he initially figured but still just a small fraction of what it would cost to run on gas. For instance, at $4.00 a gallon, a car that gets over 40 miles per gallon would still cost double per mile to operate. Of course, YMMV. To help figure it all out, Martin suggests that you create your own spreadsheet and share it with the rest of the class.
[Source: Tesla Founders Blog]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Snowdog 11:26AM (9/06/2008)
Hmmm. He somehow forgot to amortize the $40000 battery pack in there.
This is and always has been the Achilles heel of BEVs. Just about ever BEV on the planet actually costs more to run when you factor in the battery as the consumable that it is.
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why not the LS2LS7? 12:38PM (9/06/2008)
What is the lifetime of the battery pack, in your opinion?
s10 7:50PM (9/06/2008)
The price of the battery pack is part of the buying/selling price of the vehicle. .. it is not that the battery is worth 0 when you resell the car. So the extra costs for that battery are largely paid by what you get back for it when you change car, just like the extra investment you make for a hybrid comes back to you when you sell the car.. actually with the Prius you get almost always more than what it should be worth.
So if you want to pout the price of the battery in the list, you should put the price of all elements in the list.. they all can break down before their expected lifespan is reached.
Chris M 3:52AM (9/07/2008)
The battery is unlikely to abruptly die, it is a case of slowly loosing capacity. After about 150,000 miles, battery capacity will have dropped to 80%, some might replace it at that point, others might wait several thousand more miles, or be fussy and replace it sooner.
The current estimated battery cost is $22,000 but no one knows exactly what it will cost to replace years from now, as improvements may drive costs down, or inflation may drive costs up. Also, the battery may have some residual value, either as recyclable scrap or as a storage battery for utility load leveling.
It's a bit difficult to predict exactly how long the battery would last, or how much it will cost to replace, and that makes any prediction of amortized costs very iffy.
Chris 11:37AM (9/06/2008)
Don't forget to factor in that a car of this performance level was most definitely require premium fuel...
If you amortize the battery then you might as well do the electric engine too. Then, on the standard vehicle side factor in the ICE. What's the expected lifespan of a ICE that would put out this kind of performance level? It gets a bit more involved when you try to do an apples-to-apples comparison. I'm not saying the Tesla is cheaper but there's more to it than just adding in the battery on the Tesla side of the worksheet.
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GoodCheer 11:53AM (9/06/2008)
"a car that gets over 40 miles per gallon"
A car that gets 200 mpg would cost 2 cents/mile in fuel costs. Is 200mpg "over 40 mpg"?
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BenE 11:56AM (9/06/2008)
"$4.00 a gallon, a car that gets over 40 miles per gallon would still cost double per mile" 10 cents per mile is almost triple the price and when's the last time you saw a 40mpg roadster?
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tankd0g 5:37PM (9/06/2008)
Not since the 80s....
Yanquetino 1:01PM (9/06/2008)
Snowdog: NOT true. Show us the actually source of that $40,000 claim for the battery pack. We want to see the price quote.
And show us side-by-side the total cost over, say, a ten-year period, driving 1000 miles-per-month, of comparable BEV and ICE vehicles which includes the "consumables" in the other column, i.e., not just $4-per-gallon gasoline, but also oil changes, filters, belts, antifreeze, hoses, transmission fluid, tune-ups, mufflers, etc.
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fnc 1:46PM (9/06/2008)
Not to mention any number of expensive repairs that are commonly accepted as business as usual for the complicated ICE.
tankd0g 5:37PM (9/06/2008)
The cost of a Tesla over say, a Prius is more than $40k. If you don't include that in your figuring you might as well forget it.
tankd0g 5:39PM (9/06/2008)
Yes, and make sure you include those things for the Tesla, which has a liquid cooling system, lubricants, tires, brake pads etc.
Alex Campbell 1:43PM (9/06/2008)
I have always found that todays limited production electric cars are comparable in costs to normal cars, minus the emissions, even counting the amortization of the battery pack. Lithium batteries may skew that because they are not in mass production. Many have theorized that electric cars would cost less to build with volume production, but we won't know that until production models reach 20,000 units per year or so.
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Sindre Berg 2:53PM (9/06/2008)
The actual numbers that Tesla has said is the battery pack is expected to have 80% capacity at 100 000 miles. Assuming you dump the battery pack then, they say the cost now would be $20 000. I assume you can get some money for a 80% Li-ion pack but ignoring that you add another 20 cents per mile. Still unless you want to amortize the serious repair costs you can expect on a Ferrari during those 100 000 miles you are still probably getting out ahead on the Roadster. And I in some ways find the whole idea pretty absurd. Anyone that buys a $100 000 Tesla Roadster to save money needs to get their economy looked at :)
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BlackbirdHighway 7:30PM (9/06/2008)
People are comparing the cost of the Tesla with that of a Prius?
Wow, the Prius can do 0-60 in under 4 seconds now? They have made HUGE improvements in performance! I guess I'll have to take another look at Toyota's "supercar".
A Porsche 911 Turbo Convertible costs about $170,000, costs much more in fuel, and much, MUCH more to service. It's a bit closer to the Tesla than the Prius in performance.
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rj 8:03PM (9/06/2008)
How do we know the battery costs $40,000?
www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf
We know the battery pack has about 6800 cells in it.
The pack stores 53 kWh of electrical energy.
We know each cell is rated at about 3.7 volts
53,000 watt hrs / 6800 cells /3.7 volts = about 2.1 amp hour rated cells
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=945
So we search the web for a battery that can meet these specs.
Even when buying in units of 1000 or more these cells end up at $10 each and that is just the bare cells we have not soldered them together or put them in any sort of container.
To get the price of the pack Down to $40,000 you've got to get the price per cell down to $5.88 each
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Chris M 3:58AM (9/07/2008)
Um, Tesla was buying wholesale direct from the manufacturer, not retail, so the price of the cells was about $3 each.
kerry bradshaw 8:39PM (9/06/2008)
One big fraud all these EV proponents commit is in calling these cars "cheap to drive," beginning wiht that long stream of silly lies in that silly film "Who Killed.." Fortunately for the film, there were no EVs for sale at the time, and the film's viewing audience didn't know squat about electric cars and why there hadn't been any for the past 100 years, else 99% of the film would have been justly characterized as BS. Well, now it's going to be different. Mitsubishi is promising a "pure" electric next year at the same price as the Chevy Volt, around $40,000. Battery price : $20,000 with a lifespan of around 5 years. That's roughly 60,0000 miles. That means you're paying over 30 cents per mile for batteries. That sounds more like a rate charged by Taxis. The Mits will travel 100 miles at best, which means that you can count on perhaps getting there and back to destinations 35 to 40 miles away after a few years of wear and tear and non-optimal driving conditions. This means you MUST own at least two cars if one is pure electric, and the other CAN'T be pure electric. Sounds like a very restricted niche market for all these pure EV owners.
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Yanquetino 11:48PM (9/06/2008)
Yeah, yeah, broken record... from the same ol' frothing-at-the-mouth EV nemesis and oil shill sockpuppet. Kerry Bradshaw = Ken/Kent/Kerry Beauchrt/Beuchert/Beuchrt/Biker/Rider/Krider. Read all about him, folks:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/off-topic/672-ken-kent-kerry-beauchrt-beuchert-beuchrt-biker-rider-krider.html
Geeezus, Kerry aka Ken aka Kent, won't it ever sink in that we're on to you by now? We all know that your data, numbers, and calculations are bogus and exaggerated. Get a clue!
Chris M 4:10AM (9/07/2008)
Just because it it warranted for 5 years doesn't mean the battery will promptly die a day after 5 years! While the capacity might be reduced a bit, it will still be usable.
As for the cost of having a second car, the main market IS for multi-car households. Besides, with ease of operation and low per mile fuel costs, the electric would be the main car, with the gasser relegated to secondary use as the "extra car" and for rare long distance trips.
Some may even find it perfect as their only car, and rent a gasser for those once-a-year long distance holiday trips.