Filed under: Hybrid, Transportation Alternatives, North America, USA
Bombardier signs $485 million dollar contracts for hybrid locomotives
Canadian-based train manufacturer Bombardier announced two contracts to supply hybrid locomotives in North-America. According to Bombardier, these two will be the first deliveries of such technology, which uses diesel and/or electricity to power the locomotives. The contracts were signed with the New Jersey Transit Corporation (26 units) and Montréal's Agence Metropolitaine de Transport (20 units). The locomotives are to be built in Bombardier's manufacturing facilities in Germany and Poland and delivery is expected in 2011. If the locomotives are proven to be successful, NJ Transit (North-America's third largest mass transit system) expects to order 37 additional units. Likewise, Montréal's AMT (second's largest) could order 10 more locomotives.
[Source: Bombarider, Le Figaro]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Tim 10:18AM (8/20/2008)
Why didn't an AMERICAN manufacturer automatically win this contract? The money should help OUR economy, NOT Canada's.
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Eric 10:53AM (8/20/2008)
I don't know, perhaps Boeing should submit a bid. They seem to benefit most from people whining about why American companies lose contracts when they only offer crap.
tankd0g 11:28AM (8/20/2008)
Cadillac doesn't make trains, just luxobardges that get the same millage as trains.
Noz 1:25PM (8/20/2008)
You WANT capitalism? You want competition? Well....here it is...so top freaking whining. Your way of life about touting free market and blah blah blah is great....until you LOSE.
Eric 10:49AM (8/20/2008)
Umm......locomotives have been using diesel/electric hybrid motors for what, at least 50 years now? Not exactly groundbreaking news there ABG. I'm sure there's SOMETHING new and improved on this powertrain, but the fact that its a hybrid is nothing to write home about.
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tankd0g 11:28AM (8/20/2008)
I think these trains are able to switch between diesel power and overhead/third rail electric power. I'm not sure what value that is though, you'd think any rail line with electrical power would have it throughout.
why not the LS2LS7? 11:37AM (8/20/2008)
Diesel electric locomotives are not hybrids because they have no significant energy storage, they don't have regenerative braking. As such, they aren't hybrids because they get all their energy from one source (Diesel fuel). They just replace propshafts with electric wires. There are also very large dumptrucks (like used in mines) that do the same thing, they are also not hybrids.
The first hybrid locomotives were not useful for the long haul, they were only switching locomotives. There's one built by a Canadian company also.
http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/motor-vehicle-manufacturing/504246-1.html
A little googling appears to say that these locomotives aren't hybrids, they have no energy storage. They simply can take energy from their own Diesel engine or get it directly from 3rd rail or overhead wires (presumably overhead wires).
There is a hybrid long haul locomotive engine under development by GE, it does use batteries to store braking energy.
why not the LS2LS7? 11:43AM (8/20/2008)
tankd0g:
Furthermore, the advantage of electric power (overhead or 3rd rail) is that you don't have to carry the heavy Diesel engine along with you (or fuel). Those engines are very heavy and it takes a lot of energy to accelerate them up to speed and back down.
With this locomotive, when running on electricity, you still have the Diesel engine (and fuel) on board, thus blowing away virtually all the efficiency advantage.
It would be useful for runs to places where you cannot use Diesel, like Manhattan. Presumably any train run from Chicago to NYC has to switch engines somewhere along the way, since there's no electric wires most of the way and Diesel cannot be used on Manhattan.
Mike 2:06PM (8/20/2008)
Re @6: You might *think* that a line would be electrified all the way along, but that's not always so. Here on Long Island, the LIRR lines are electrified up to about halfway out on the island, after that, you need diesel locos. It's a NIMBY thing - the folks out east are afraid that if the lines go electric the whole way, more people will move east and still be able to commute to NYC.
Fosters 4:01PM (8/20/2008)
to why not the LS2LS7?:
Are you seriously suggesting the diesel engine is "very heavy"? Are you forgetting the context this is in? We're talking trains here. Are you forgetting these things move thousands of tons worth of train cars? Your typical 'whole' locomotive is in the 150-250 ton range; lets say a 50 ton engine is absolutely childs play for something that can move up to about 20,000 tons... It would be much like picking up mail with your prius...
GeoSTI 6:30PM (8/20/2008)
LS2/7 : There is no need for an engine change. Trains leaving Penn Station are 3rd rail equipped GE locomotives (Genesis series) for the runs through non-catenary lines. Others are powered by full electrics.
These would be running out of Penn, heading South. The main advantage of having a dual or even tri-mode is that for yard operations, self-powered is a massive advantage. Catenary cost money, not just in installation, but in maintenance (something the politicians always forget when talking rail).
As for why it isn't domestically built? Well, the high cost of catenary maintenance coupled with the in-ability to run double stack containers (easily) and other taller loads with cat has lead to no Electric freight locomotives since the E44. GE and EMD don't make them. Simple as that. Thus, we must go to countries that dump obscene amounts of money (and had a very nice chance to rebuilt their rail networks in the 40s and 50s) to get catenary equipment.
why not the LS2LS7? 7:12PM (8/20/2008)
These are commuter trains, it says right in the article, not 100 car freight trains. That train right there is pulling about 800 tons, not 20,000.
Furthermore, electrified lines are very uncommon for freight.
why not the LS2LS7? 7:16PM (8/20/2008)
GeoSTI:
Thanks for the useful info. However, we are talking about commuter trains here. Aren't switchyard operations rare for commuter trains? Or are you just talking about fanout at the end of the line where the trains are parked and not having to electrify 12 sidings that only see movement twice a day anyway?
Frustrated Consumer 11:36AM (8/20/2008)
As Eric pointed out, diesel-electric locomotives have been around since 1928.
The headline is misleading, since they never say it's a HYBRID in the way 'hybrid' is used today (meaning using batteries as storage).
Instead their press release only says it's a DUAL MODE train, capable of using on-board diesel to generate electric power or use overhead electric lines for power. They claim that is a 'first' for North America.
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Whopper 2:37PM (8/20/2008)
"I don't know, perhaps Boeing should submit a bid. They seem to benefit most from people whining about why American companies lose contracts when they only offer crap."
You got the first part right Eric, YOU DON'T KNOW. The GAO validated Boeing's contention that the Air Force made errors in reviewing the bid. Exactly what are your qualifications to judge Boeing's products as "crap"?
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Eric Lemieux 4:43PM (8/20/2008)
What is interesting with this new locomotive is that if you have a standard non-eletric rail line, and you want to switch it to electric then you don't need to rebuy a new locomotive. You already have one that's able to do the job. Also, if for some reason power goes out on the line, the train can still travel on diesel. Good way to prevent terrorist to stop all trains at the same time by cutting power to the lines.
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Andy 5:33PM (8/20/2008)
#7 The word "hybrid" is not as specific as you are making it. It means "anything derived from heterogeneous sources, or composed of elements of different or incongruous kinds." (dictionary.reference.com) There are many different techniques for combing electric and mechanical propulsion. Using a battery for energy recapture is just one of many.
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Edward Frantz 11:21AM (8/21/2008)
Other countrys often win because their labor cost are lower. Higher labor costs are sometimes Ok if the labor output is higher. That is not the UAW way unfortunately.
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