Filed under: Diesel, MPG, Volkswagen
Jetta TDI demos turn up at dealers, lots of orders coming in
The initial batch of Volkswagen Jetta TDIs have started to appear at Volkswagen dealers around the country and at least one dealer in Virginia is reporting a lot of interest. Jay Pichardo of Greenbrier Volkswagen posted a photo of the first demo vehicle and some initial stats. In the first 24 hours, thirteen people took the car out for test drives and ten people put down deposits on the new fifty-state legal diesel. According to Pichardo, the car has averaged 49mpg over the first 120 miles. Interestingly the car is emblazoned with graphics that emphasize the fact that the car is not a concept. We're waiting patiently for Volkswagen to send a Jetta over to the ABG Garage for our own evaluation of real world mileage. Keith, you know where to reach me.
[Source: Motive Mag]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
David Cabral 10:32AM (6/30/2008)
I'm surprised, considering the price of diesel compared to gasoline. I might buy a Volkswagen Wagon (Passat, Jetta, or Audi A3) if they are offered as a TDI diesel.
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Eric McErlain 11:14AM (6/30/2008)
I took a spin in the new Jetta TDI Loyal last week at a dealer in Northern Virginia, and was pleased with the ride. One disappointment -- for some reason the diesel Jetta doesn't yet qualify for the same clean fuel license plate that hybrids can carry. In the Dulles corridor, this is a very big deal, as it would mean I could jump into the HOV lanes on VA-267 and I-66 for at least a year, something that probably would have tipped my buying decision toward the Volkswagen.
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rob 12:26PM (6/30/2008)
I guess I have only two questions about this vehicle:
1) What are the emissions per mile compared to a hybrid? Since it appears that the pricing of Diesel now takes into account the performance difference, the only thing left to differentiate them to me is the emissions.
2) Will it have the same quality as most Volkswagens in the US? I usually get a laugh at the number of VW's I see on the road with some sort of electronics issue...(lights, power locks, dash failues, etc.)
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Bill 3:41PM (6/30/2008)
Most gasoline-powered Jettas are built in Puebla, Mexico at a plant which has had...um..some labor issues in the past.
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Peter Connors 4:59PM (6/30/2008)
Just saw the demo with the graphics shown in the photo being serviced at my local dealer in Devon PA. I was told it will be ready to test drive in the next few days. I have a deposit down but still have no confirmation of delivery. I will post after my test drive.
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Shawn 7:04PM (6/30/2008)
Keep in mind since this car uses 1/2 the fuel as a gas engine it's total carbon footprint is far below any gas car and equal to most hybrids.
Americans need to get on board with diesels!
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Mr Brody 7:42PM (6/30/2008)
EPA estimates say only 33 MPG Diesel combined. You can hypermile a TDI or you can Hypermile a Prius, let’s stick to current EPA to compare apples to apples. That is $800 more in fuel cost over a Prius and the Carbon foot print is ~60% more??? The MSRP of the TDI is around $4000 more too.
What is green about the TDI??? Tell me!
I still like driving my 9 year old Insight at 53 MPG EPA (70 Real life), I bought it used for $8K.
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geekmorgan@gmail.com 1:27AM (7/02/2008)
Mr Brody...
so... you're comparing apples to oranges yourself, if you say your car gets 70 Real life, and 53 EPA.
You have to admit that the EPA numbers can be way off, right?
Andy 8:52PM (6/30/2008)
What is green about TDI?
Well for starters, my current Audi gets 20 mpg real world on Premium. The VW outperforms it and out miles it.
Second: The Insight doesn't have 66.9 cubic feet of cargo space. The Prius isn't bad for space, but it's like the only other choice at this mpg level. The TDI will well out mile the Camry Hybrid which carries a whopping 11 cubic ft of cargo and costs more, and on the highway, the TDI competes with Prius mileage.
Obviously we can debate "real world mileage" until the cows come home since YMMV, but if the personal reports on fueleconomy.gov are representative, the Prius hovers around 45 avg and the Jetta will be around 40 (that's still great) and has the ability to take biodiesel.
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Andy 9:01PM (6/30/2008)
I test drove it. It is FUN! It has DSG automatic so you can sport around in whatever gear you want, or leave it on auto. The torque curve is druel inducing ... not that it's a monster, but once the turbo spools up, the thing pulls and pulls and pulls like a rocket sled right on up to its top speed. There's no lunging as with gas cars torque spiking just at their favorite RPMs. Right after that I tested an Acura TSX which is clearly underthrusted in comparison.
Footnote: I've been shopping. They are only trickling in, reportedly around four at a time per dealership but with quite a bit of interest. In the South SF Bay, I haven't found anyone who will go less than MSRP, and many who demand $1000, $2000 and up to $3000 "market adjustment fee" on top of MSRP. I got one of the first orders in but don't expect my Sportwagon until October.
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K 12:35PM (9/24/2008)
Good luck on the october. I too ordered one right when they were available to be ordered and Volkswagen now tells me they have "halted production" on special orders. They are now mass producing what they want to and you and I may not see ours for quite some time.
I am very disappointed with volkswagen right now. I feel like they have sold out their most valued customers.
K
wxman 10:46PM (6/30/2008)
The certified CARB emissions for the 2009 Jetta TDI are available at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/volkswagen_pc_a0070271_2d0_l2_diesel.pdf
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Andy 3:14AM (7/01/2008)
Mr Brody, the MSRP markup is only $1350 over invoice., plus $50 bucks here and there on the options. I'm not sure why you chose to buy from the dealer with the $3000 markup. I ordered mine at the place that didn't overcharge. That seemed like the more clever thing to do. ;)
The 10.3 seconds was for the 2007 model. From Car and Driver: "Horsepower in this new 2.0-liter common-rail diesel engine is up 40 percent over the previous 1.9-liter four-cylinder, with torque up 33 percent. Those figures mean an increase in drivability of about 500 percent. With the previous engine, the best performance we managed to coax from a Jetta TDI was a sluggish 10.3 second 0-60 wheez. The additional power and torque produced by this new, cleaner engine bring that number down to somewhere in the low- to mid-eight second range."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/2008_new_car_reviews/2008_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_first_drive_review
I don't fault your bias in loving your Insight, but it doesn't do everything. This is the common fallacy we engage in on green blogs. One car isn't supposed to fit everyones' needs. I hear people complain the Tesla doesn't carry enough kids and complain that the Prius can't pull a boat. You complain the TDI isn't the most efficient, but you only get to carry two people. My Sportswagen will carry five and/or a huge amount of cargo. If two is enough, great, keep the Insight.
I welcome critique if you can show me a car with this kind of volume that gets better mileage. Until then, I congratulate VW being the first to market with a car in this category and mileage while the rest of the makers are still mumbling promises.
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Jared 7:30AM (7/01/2008)
"Most gasoline-powered Jettas are built in Puebla, Mexico at a plant which has had...um..some labor issues in the past."
Actually, the quality ratings at the Puebla plant are no different than the quality in Germany.
I had a 2000 GTI GLX that I bought new and drove for 40,000 miles. Mine was built in Germany. During that time, I had to replace the following items:
- starter motor
- thermostat
- a/c compressor
- MAF
- coil pack
- plugs and plug wires
- rear brakes
- rear struts and shock top mounts twice (and they needed to be fixed again when I sold the car)
None of these problems were caused by the location of the final assembly. Most of them were caused by poor design.
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Mr Brody 11:37AM (7/01/2008)
I’m not one of those who thinks that the personal car should be banded, but I do think that Treehugger has been green washing the hell out of the Jetta TDI.
According to Andy, the market value premium is $3000 + $4000 MSRP premium = $7000, which is almost the a used Honda Insight.
The TDI is also considered sluggish at a 0-60 mph of 10.3 seconds, which is no better than a ~70 hp Insight. Can you tell my bias?
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geekmorgan 1:27AM (7/02/2008)
new car with a usable backseat, trunk and full warranty vs an old honda with aging batteries..? Seems like an easy enough decision.
jchull 3:29PM (7/01/2008)
We got some reading deficiencies here today... 10.3 is clearly on the previous 1.9l, and I only read that post once. Some funny math creeping in as usual...
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John 3:53PM (7/01/2008)
Mr. Brody,
The new EPA mileage methods massively penalize the Jetta. According to EPA's documents, the EPA mileage numbers understate the real world mileage of diesels, 99% of which tested were TDIs, by 18%. If you remove the ethanol adjustment (since diesels don't burn ethanol) that number becomes 25%. So in the real world, we should see high 40s on the highway, and mid 30s on surface street city driving. So, not quite as good as a Prius, but at parity with a Civic Hybrid, with the added bonus of room for a big dog in the rear of the wagon.
As for emissions, the one ding is NOx, which meets LEV II requirements. Everything else meets SULEV. Soot? None. Nil. Nada. Zilch. Not a microgram of soot passes out the tailpipe. The days of sooting Priuses are sadly over.
As for performance, I've test drove one, and I'd say that the Car and Driver estimates of low to mid 8s on the 0-60 times are spot on. It hits much like an Accord V6 and pulls hard at every rpm.
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Rick 4:09PM (7/01/2008)
@8, My Audi gets 27 combined, about 60% city 40% highway. Of course, I have the 2.0t, gotta love those 4 bangers.
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Serge 5:24PM (7/01/2008)
If this post is any indication (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/01/audi-efficiency-marathon-over-with-best-of-70-9mpg-and-88g-km-co/) the cars equiped with TDI engine could show some impressive mileage figures utilizing some hypermiling techniques.
To the [lucky] owners of the US TDI Jetta: please feel very free to post your purchasing / driving experiences.
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