Filed under: Hybrid, Honda, Detroit Auto Show
Honda to revive the Insight name for new hybrid?
With the success that Toyota has had with its Prius hybrid sedan, you could be forgiven for forgetting that Honda actually beat them to market here in the states with the Insight. For whatever reason, though, the Insight never became the green-bearer that Honda had hoped. Still, the name is not associated with any negativity, so Honda might be considering reviving it for its upcoming dedicated hybrid model. We applaud this idea and hope it turns out to be more than just a rumor.
Honda's new hybrid model should more directly compete with the Prius as it will be sport a four-door body style and be easily identifiable as a green vehicle. Expected to use a 1.3 liter engine along with the Integrated Motor Assist which Honda uses for all of its hybrids, early estimates for fuel mileage are in the 50-55 mile per gallon range. Much of the structure is said to be derived from the Civic, which could account for its expected price of under $19,000. Also expected are nickel metal hydride batteries which would help keep pricing low. With rumors such as these, we'll be hard pressed to wait until its expected debut at next year's Detroit Auto Show, which, incidentally, is when Toyota will unveil its next-gen Prius. Game on.
[Source: Auto Observer]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
why not the LS2LS7? 8:41AM (6/17/2008)
Honda needs to work on a better hybrid system. With IMA, the gas motor has to be spinning all the time the car is moving. It's no more a two-mode system than GMs mild hybrids are.
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Peekoyle 9:42AM (6/17/2008)
In this day and age producing a hybrid without some sort of plug-in option is rather pointless.
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Mike Z 12:59PM (6/17/2008)
Peekoyle: Take about making the good the enemy of the perfect.
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Karkus 1:35PM (6/17/2008)
Bring it on Honda! It's about time that someone challenges Toyota in the hybrid game. Plug in or not doesn't really matter to most of the public (only the early adopters care). Unfortunately Honda knows that more people would buy a cheap hybrid than a slightly better but more expensive PHEV.
The IMA may seem inferior, but my coworker's Civic IMA get just as good MPG as my Prius (or better). That's in part because you can do super hypermiling with it like like FAS (cut the engine while driving).
I think the Insight name would be OK, although it was mocked on South Park as being the the Hindsight (along with the Pious)
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Peter 1:46PM (6/17/2008)
Who cares if the motor spins.
Results are what counts. The insight had IMA and got better mpg than anything on the road, averaging about 10-15mpg more than a Prius.
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Sasparilla 1:47PM (6/17/2008)
It'll be interesting to see what Honda actually comes up with for this. 2009 will be the year of the Hybrid with the new Prius, this vehicle and possibly another hybrid based on the Fit from Honda, Ford releasing the Fusion Hybrid and GM actually getting a real hybrid Saturn View out as well. Honda and Toyota have committed to big production increases for their hybrids. 2009 should be a good year if you want a hybrid.
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MarcT 2:51PM (6/17/2008)
Peekoyle, you're a little off on this one. I agree with Karkus that plug-ins are not the necessary answer. For a lot of hybrid lovers, PHEVs are still not needed or wanted. O, we all say we want them. But since hybrids sell best in urban centers, and urban centers have a lower number of single family homes, the likelihood of being able to plug in your hybrid is diminished. Knowing that the rest of my life will probably be spent in apartments/condos, I'll stick to regular hybrids. I sure many others will do likewise. Toyota actually knows this quite well, I'm sure Honda does too. Which is why they are not rushing into plug-ins, but making them an eventual option for hybrid buyers. Meanwhile, how practical will the Volt be for urban apt/condo dwellers? Has GM thought about that??
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Peter 3:56PM (6/17/2008)
Yeah. I am with MarcT as well. Apartment dwellers generally won't be able to run plug ins.
I might get a house someday, then I "might" be interested in a plug in, but for now, I just want more efficient gas/oil burner.
IMO those clamoring for plug ins are a vocal minority, much like the "run your car a fryer grease" crowd.
Most of us just want big mpg numbers with the same convenience we have today.
The plug in market is useful niche, but it is a niche.
I just hope Honda can match the Insights MPG. I missed out on them first time around and they are very rare on the used market.
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jake 4:12PM (6/17/2008)
@MarcT, Peter
I live in an urban center too (so far) so I won't be able to use a plug-in w/o off the street charging or rapid charging being implemented (or finding a parking garage with some sort of charging, which I can probably do).
But I'm sure it's not really as much as a niche as the traditional sense of the word. I mean, knowing America, probably a large portion of the US population is living in a place that has easy access to a plug.
Afterall, Peekoyle is talking about a plug-in OPTION, meaning people who definitely can't use a plug-in can just buy the standard version.
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Pudge 5:06PM (6/17/2008)
My understanding about this car is that it is supposed to revealed at the Paris show later this year (and therefore before the unveiling of the 3G Prius). Has that changed?
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Snowdog 5:27PM (6/17/2008)
"In this day and age producing a hybrid without some sort of plug-in option is rather pointless."
Pointless? 99.9999%+ of cars sold today don't have plugs. That is a pretty big share of the market to be pointless.
Batteries are still a weak link. Plug ins require much more of these expensive batteries and are much harder on them. Making monetary break in time just about never.
I understand the desire to be free of the pump, but don't pretend than non plug-ins are obsolete.
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Snowdog 5:28PM (6/17/2008)
Damn no edit capability. "break even" time.
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stevejust 5:36PM (6/17/2008)
Am I the only apartment dweller that's thought far enough ahead about all of this to specifically rent an aparment with a garage that's got electrical outlets in it?
(Not only that, my old house had a garage wired with a 220 volt outlet. The prior owner had a tanning bed in the garage. Obviously, I had other reasons for being happy about the 220 volt outlet. But I was just a bit overly optimistic about that as it turns out.)
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stevejust 5:42PM (6/17/2008)
Back to the point of the thread... about reviving the Insight name. I don't think the name had anything to do with the lackluster sales. I think the Prius simply appealed to more people.
The problem I always had with the Insight was that as a motorcycle rider, it didn't offer enough of a difference between riding and driving that I felt like I could buy it. I have a Civic Hybrid, 4 doors, 5 passengers. I'd be better off in L.A. with Synergy Drive, but IMA works really well in the 'burbs. I like that I have a manual transmission. But will I buy another Honda hybrid? Probably not. Do I regret the one I have? Nope.
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Snowdog 7:18PM (6/17/2008)
"Am I the only apartment dweller that's thought far enough ahead about all of this to specifically rent an aparment with a garage that's got electrical outlets in it?"
I thought it more important to get an apartment walking distance to work.
What is the purpose of those outlets? Who pays for the power. Somehow I don't think they were put there for the massive load of electric car charging, but occaisional use for running a vacuum.
If the building services pay the power, you may be in for a sad surprise when you plug in your electric car and they cut you off as car charging is not in their capital budget.
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Snowdog 7:23PM (6/17/2008)
@Stevejust: The civic hybrid came with a manual transmission in North America? I never saw them listed.
Serious, the Insight never sold well because Honda didn't want it to sell, There was almost no stock, the did almost no marketing. They were made of aluminum in the same factory as the NSX. They cost more to build than they sold for. Not to mention most people arent' interested in 2 seaters.
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GenWaylaid 11:19PM (6/17/2008)
I definitely am interested in 2-seaters, but I'm probably not people.
The thing that bugs me about pretty much every green car design is that they're all "city cars" to a large degree. How about cars that are designed to be efficient on the highway?
I almost never drive in the city, but I keep a car to go camping. I need something that can run all day at 70mph while using as little gas as possible, then handle a few miles of dirt road. Thanks to those last few miles, I can pretty much forget about low ground clearance, low-rolling-resistance tires, or long aerodynamic overhangs. Maybe I should spend my money trying to streamline a Subaru Outback.
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stevejust 11:49PM (6/17/2008)
@ Snowdog:
The first generation Civic and the Insight were both available with MTs. They got rid of the manual transmission with the second generation Civic. The Accord hybrid was never available with a MT. According to Greenhybrid.com, the MT Civic and Prius get the same mileage in real world driving.
I pay for the electricity to the garage, and my place is 2.1 miles from my office, so I ride my bicycle to work. Because I also walk to Whole Foods and most restaurants I frequent and have a motorcycle, sometimes I wonder why I have a car at all.
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Joseph 5:49PM (6/18/2008)
I kind of doubt Honda will use the Insight name again, especially for a four-door model compeltely unrelated to the Insight, even if the Insight is relatively unknown to the world.
I really hope their next hybrids come with a manual option...
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Snowdog 7:58PM (6/18/2008)
Is it individual garages? Doesn't sound much like an apt building. Anyway it doesn't change the fact that most apt dwellers do not have this option.
I just hope honda comes out with something close to the stellar mileage of the Insight and it has an optional manual transmission.
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