AutoblogGreen

John M. from Quest Enterprises? Can we just call him Johnny Quest?

Reply

3 wheeled vehicles with 2 wheels in the back and one in the front tend to be unstable when braking into a turn. In other words, they tend to flip over like the old 3 wheel ATVs which were outlawed due to too many deaths.

Those three wheelers with body roll like the Carver are much more stable however three wheelers with one wheel in the back and 2 up front like the Aptera are much more stable and thus even safer.

Reply

Huzzah for a company who is planning the car as a pure electric, but offers an Auxiliary Power Trailer (APT) which offers the ability to stick a gas engine on the back to increase range. It's the perfect car. 100 mile range on batteries, infinite with gasoline. Hopefully the engine will be efficient enough to get 100mpg, but at least I can get my range.

Reply

You don't seriously believe a marketable car will come of this, do you? All I saw was a video of a couple of good ol' boys and a cobbled-together go-kart.

Without a few million in venture capital, the Predator is nothing more than a drawing and wishful thinking.

Reply

I cringed when I saw that they used a VW swing axle. That's not just totally outdated suspension technology, with only one wheel in the front it's downright dangerous. Especially if you consider that this thing is supposed to be driven "sporty".

Oh, and they're using lead-acid batteries too? You know, for how "innovative" this car is supposed to be, you'd think they could have made it using something other than 60s technology. Literally, this thing could've been built 40 years ago, you'd never see the difference. It'd be supercool if it /was/ from the 60s, but for something claiming to be a modern development, it's just embarrassing.

Reply

I often pass on commentary on items like this, but Das Boese and Wave54 remind me of two old men complaining about the government at their table with the gumption to get off thier butts and do anything.

I see the problems with the project.

Yes three wheel has stability issues, but if it's that terrible why are ther so many 3 wheel motorcycles in production. I think if we say wholesale that three wheel vehicles are unsafe then we also have to admit that you're complaint has holes in it as well.

Lead acid batteries are a stable (and cheap) source of power for EV cars throughout the world. Lith-Ion have more range but as a EV enthusiast, I still would have problems in spending THOUSANDS of dollars more for batteries. Oh, and that exploding problems is a real turn off as well. I recall an article about a Canadian company closing its doors because they couldn't stop the random battery from exploding. This tells me there still some problems.

Using 60's techology is a problem for you. Some of the best innovations of all times have been two "good old boys" getting some junk and making it work. If you take time to look at the website is seems as though they have some work going on here, as well as, a lot of work to be done. BUT at least their doing SOMETHING. As far as I know their not spending time whining on website blog's about the work that someone else is doing.

Think Microsoft, Ford, YouTube, Google all started with a couple of guys that just had an idea. Get with the program Das Boese and Wave, it's you Model T thinking in a Proton Accelerated world that fails to cause change, not two Good-Old Boys trying to make change.

At bear minimum they made enough of an impact to be on this website, what have YOU done to be noticed except complain.

Best of wishes on the project.

Reply

It has nothing to do with "Model T thinking" and everything to do with marketability and the enormous task of developing a bona fide car that can be sold to the masses.

In this case, there's is a big disconnect between the concept drawing, the maker's vision and the reality as portrayed in the video. That clip did them no favors!

There hasn't been a successful new American nameplate in my lifetime, despite many millions spent trying and some very worthy efforts. If Tesla survives, they will be the first truly new domestic brand to compete in a market dominated by the Big 3 and imports.

I wish all those with visionary thinking and determination well, yet in the real world where buyers will make the ultimate choices, only the very best of all the concepts seen on this blog will ever see production beyond a handful of units.

I would consider the Aptera an incredibly well-developed effort and admire the technology, yet even its future is by no means guaranteed. I hope it succeeds, even if I would never buy it myself.

Reply

While I appreciate your comments I dare say that if any consumer had seen their beloved family car in its initial frame form and development could see buying it in the end form.

Telsa won't and can be marketed to the masses for a car in excess of $100,000 dollars. From what I read on the website this care was a basic workhorse that was slotted to be sub $20,000, Cheaper if a kit was purchased.

You speak of the big three and imports and years ago there were no imports. Now the imports comprise the new definition of the big three. Not to mention of the big three, one who shall remain nameless required a government bail out not so long ago.

Endgame, at this point with items that are readily and value costed to make even possible for average family incomes to get to, this like many others has a chance to go.

In base I heard this at one point that change has two forms. The first is sudden and a life changing moment that occurs OR it is a painfully slow alteration of our realities at such a rate that we can only tell it happened once it has completed. EV is one of these painfully slow adoptions because of the sacrifice of AC or PW, PS, CD/AM/FM/MP3/XM etc, etc, etc.

I guess I just have a soft spot for folks who are proactive instead of reactive in nature. This big picture isn't that hard to see if one opens their eyes. I just mean to say that this thing has as good a chance of going as any other on the market today.

Reply

I appreciate all the comments I have read and they raise some interesting points to say the least. My comments will, in part reference, not only our research and development (conducted in association with Quebec’s Advanced Transportation Institute – ITAQ), but comments made by Robert Q. Riley and Randolph Beckman. For me, the rollover issue is as much of a philosophical question as anything. Any vehicle, if mishandled, will rollover in a turn. Does this make the vehicle unsafe to drive? This is particularly true of many 4 wheel, high profile vehicles, with a high center of gravity such as large SUV’s and loaded tractor-trailers, which can go into oversteer at about 0.3g and overturn at about 0.6g. If you get the center of gravity (cg) low enough and close enough to the 2-wheel end, and have a wide enough track, you can build a 3-wheeler that won't overturn in the most extreme maneuvers on flat pavement. As much as 75% of our vehicle’s weight is positioned over and around the rear wheels. Research has born out that all single-front wheel 3-wheelers will oversteer at their limit of adhesion. Conversely, all single-rear-wheel cars had strong understeer at the limit. There are a lot of folks driving around out there in oversteering production sedans (because of low tire pressures) who will never encounter that limit even in an emergency. Robert Q. Riley, arguably one of the foremost authorities on three wheeled vehicles, had this to say when talking about the (delta design) TRIMUTER, "It’s possible to design three-wheelers with rollover stability equal to that of four-wheel cars." Handling and stability analysis on our vehicle showed that it performs very well in breaking turns decelerating from 75 miles per hour. I have one final note concerning using VW Swingarm and transmission technology. I designed the original version, shown in the video, so that it could be duplicated using existing technology available to anyone. VW components are both available and durable. I am proud of the simple heritage of our electric. Our goal is to provide a sporty (not sports car) electric vehicle that's fun to drive and the average person can afford; not one that is only for the rich and famous. Rest assured the commercial version we are developing does not use 40 year old automotive technology and, at the present time, the MBOM contains no VW components. And just in case someone has an extra $30,000 dollars to spend, we are in negotiations with providers of Li-Ion batteries. John Q.

Reply

OMG I LIKE THE GREEN FACTOR but nothing will come of that car , it will never become mainstream or even appeal to more than .2 percent of the worlds population lol. That thing looks terrible !

Reply

Wow. You just quoted the parameters for some of the world greatest achievements.

One great person once said the true definition of being on the path to success is by how many people say it will never work....

I say let them keep complaining...

Kudos GOB's

Reply

Besides taking that comment for face value would equate to:

it will never become mainstream or even appeal to more than .2 percent of the worlds population

Current worlds population estimate from July 2007 World Fact Book

6,602,224,175 (July 2007 est.)
X .002 (or .2%)of the world's population"
______________________________

13,204,448.35 Potential Sales based on your estimate of acceptance.

I hate to say it guys, you need to give this up, if at max you have .02 percent of the world's
acceptance as Kevin Nugent notes that's only... 13 million units sold, not even worth getting out of bed in the morning. I mean your time could be better spent by raising funds for his fuel bill.

Anyone for a frozen rum drink instead.

Reply

Erk, late reply. Anyway.
Thanks for your input John Q.
I was specifically concerned about the VW axles, I have no problems with three wheelers in general. I just had a "WTF?" moment because today, there are suspensions that are just as cheap and easily available but offer substantial better characteristics, for instance the semi-trailing arm suspensions of later VWs.
From your comment I gather that the car in the video was a very early, garage-built prototype never meant for commercialization, so yeah, my objections and concerns regarding "60s tech" are largely unfounded.
I still stand by my notion that a truly modern EV design should use more advanced energy storage than plain old lead-acid batteries, but of course I recognize the points about cost and availability vs. Li-ion cells. Luckily, there is a lot of effort going on to change this.

Reply