Filed under: Lightweight
Carbon fiber costs may soon be slashed
As automakers scramble to find ways to reduce the fuel consumption of vehicles, mass reduction is one of the main target areas. Over the last three decades, cars and trucks have gotten substantially heavier for a variety of reasons. Ever-increasing safety and emissions regulations have meant the addition of hardware like numerous airbags, improved structures and, of course, the emissions hardware. Cars have also picked up all manner of technology like power everything, nav systems, satellite radio assorted other gear. Unfortunately, eliminating hardware is problematic for both regulatory and marketing reasons.
The obvious solution is to use lighter weight materials. Numerous manufacturers have dabbled in use of aluminum to various degrees ranging from hoods and trunklids to full structures. However, aluminum is both more expensive and not as strong as steel. The strength issue has been addressed by improved finite element analysis tools that allow structural optimization. One material that has huge potential for weight savings without sacrificing strength is carbon fiber. Carbon fiber has been used in race cars for over two decades due to the fact that it has strength comparable to steel at one-fifth of the weight. Unfortunately it costs 30 times as much as steel. Toray Industries Inc., Teijin Ltd. and Mitsubishi Rayon Co, the three Japanese companies that dominate 70 percent of the carbon fiber market, are trying to crank up production volumes and develop new processes to cut costs. Currently only one percent of carbon fiber output is used for automotive applications and most of that goes to higher performance cars like the Nissan GT-R and the new Corvette ZR1. If carbon fiber could be widely used, it's estimated that the weight of cars could be cut in half.
The combination of slashing the molding times for carbon components and rising steel prices are both coming together to promote the lightweight material. There are still a lot of issues to address, but carbon could play a much bigger part in the future of cars.
[Source: Automotive News - sub. req'd]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ooglek 11:49AM (5/20/2008)
Kind of a disappointing write up. No new processes to report, no new production lines, no meat. "Maybe someday carbon fiber might be cheaper" is the substance of the post.
Maybe you could include a summary of the Automotive News source that not all have a subscription to that includes exactly WHAT has changed in the carbon fiber industry that makes you believe that more car manufacturers might be using carbon fiber over what they use now anytime soon.
From what I can read, this post is speculating that technology is improving and someday what is expensive now might be cheaper later. We all knew that.
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steven 12:26PM (5/20/2008)
@1: Let's just say if you really want to know what is going on in the heart of an industry, it can be very beneficial to subscribe to a premium industry trade publication.
All the "news" you see on TV and in auto enthusiast rags? It was in AN weeks and maybe even months ago. (This story came out over 10 days ago.)
Gratined I've spent over $3K on my AN subscription in the 24 yrs since I left GM, but it has been worth every penny!
Right now they're giving away multi-week trial subscriptions for free and sometime open their website up for free trials as well.
The world's biggest CF supplier is opening a new 2.5 billion JPY auto dev center next month with the main goal of developing low-cost CF options for automotive body panels and hybrids. The 2nd biggest one is developing a 10 minute molding process, down from the current hours long molding process.
Those 2 groups account for HALF of the world's output in CF based composites. If they're trying to lower costs, costs are going to be lowered. It is not just good-natured speculation. BTW, they are both in Japan.
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litteuldav 12:42PM (5/20/2008)
A material that costs more but save weight can be a good idea.
I thought Carbon Fiber was not good at recycling.
Is it :
-because it costs a lot of energy to recycle ?
-because some material is wasted irremediably in the process of recycling ?
-because it is cheaper to produce new carbon fiber and slash the ancient ?
-because the resins used are toxics ?
Carbon is really abundant element AFAIK.
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ooglek 12:43PM (5/20/2008)
@steven -- I read the blogs because I don't have time to commit to keeping up with the industry. Blogs save me time by reading all the stuff that's out there, and writing up comprehensive, well written summaries that boil down the gist of what's going on, plus a little personal perspective and opinion. I've come to value that at ABG.
This post was disappointing, as it had nothing to say, other than some other rag might have some information about carbon fiber maybe becoming cheaper. Not ABG quality I've come to appreciate.
I'm OK with not knowing things about the industry the second they come out. But if they are being blogged about here, I hope to see the news summarized and have some nice juicy details where appropriate.
Honestly, in your comments you did a better job summarizing the article in AN than Sam did -- the news is the new auto dev center, and the two technologies you highlight. Your single 2nd-to-last paragraph is what I'm looking for, and matches the headline in the original post. Thanks!
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jm99 5:33PM (5/20/2008)
@Sam: sorry to nitpick, but actually aluminum is stronger than steel while also being lighter and more expensive. That's why it's used so heavily in aerospace applications (my field) where weight trumps *everything*, even cost. I will note that aluminum does deform more for a given load than steel does, but its ultimate strength (basically defined as the load that causes it to fail) is most definitely higher than steel.
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Joseph 6:16PM (5/20/2008)
I don't see why everyone is complaining. I thought this post was quite informative.
"However, aluminum is both more expensive and not as strong as steel."
I know aluminium cost more, but I thought strength wasn't really an issue. The tiny all aluminium Honda Insight receives four stars for side crashes. (Remember that side crashes simulate the crash vehicle colliding with an SUV)
"Unfortunately it costs 30 times as much as steel...Currently only one percent of carbon fiber output is used for automotive applications..."
Sad...
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Kevin Nugent 10:27PM (5/20/2008)
To me , its crazy i just thing that cars as a whole weight to much , Despite safety innovations and creature comforts I just think they weigh too much
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john riley 9:07AM (5/21/2008)
OTOH carbon nanotubes might be the new asbestos:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/29551/Carbon-nanotubes-could-cause-cancer-warn-scientists
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naggs 11:36AM (5/21/2008)
magnesium is the new aluminum, expect to see more sub assemblies made from cast magnesium.
as for the total weight reduction you could get by going to CF for cars, cut in half is a ridiculous over estimate. even if the entire unibody, body panels, door, hood and trunk lid were made from CF you would only save between 500 and 800 lbs off an average family sedan. the majority of the weight in cars comes from the majority of parts. meaning that is all the thousands of little things that add up. unless they start making HVAC ducts, bracts, steering racks, gas tanks, and NVH reducers out of ultra-light materials, you will not see more than 20% reduction in curb weight.
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luigi 1:42PM (5/21/2008)
As an Engineering student, in the majority of aluminum I have come across there is no way the ultimate strength of aluminum is greater than ultimate strength of steel. I hope you meant carbon fiber, I believe CF is stronger than aluminum.
Aren't there problems with CF such as warping ? I'd like to see a CF engine built just like the poly motor Ford had built years ago. Same parts as a regular car engine, just build from plastic composites able to withstand the heat of combustion.
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BGJ 3:42PM (5/21/2008)
@jm99
I hope your boss isn't reading your posts because you might get fired for lack of knowledge. Steel is a stronger material than aluminum. However, steel is 3x more dense that is why aluminum is used in aircraft.
If aluminum was a stronger material than steel while weighing 1/3 as much, the steel industry would disappear overnight.
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Michael Hippenhammer 9:13PM (5/21/2008)
#3 beat me to the subject. Can carbon fiber be recycled? If it can is it really worth it?
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