Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, Renault
Nissan hedges all-electric bet with range extender option
Nissan has been telling us over and over again that they will have electric cars for sale by 2010 and we are pretty darn sure they're serious about it. However, that doesn't mean that they are so committed to zero emissions that they won't explore less idyllic possibilities. Conscious of a vocal segment of the car-buying public that wishes to be able to travel well beyond the current range of a battery electric vehicle without having to stop for hours to re-charge, Nissan/Renault head Carlos Ghosn stated in an interview last week that they will be offering a "range extender" in some of their upcoming electric models. Ghosn is quoted in a piece in the Wall Street Journal, as saying that Nissan is committed to making vehicles that are "pure electric, zero emission. But you always have the possibility of having a range extender."
It's possible Ghosn remembers that the Renault side of the corporate family built 500 electric vehicles with range extenders back in 2003 called the Elect'Road (electrode, get it?). Though technology has marched on in the five years since that brief offering, perhaps they believe they can improve on that formula with a modern drivetrain, like that of the Mixim concept (pictured above). And while this compares closely with what GM is planning for the Volt, the article in the WSJ suggests that the Nissan version will go 100 miles gas-free as compared to the meager 40 clicks for the Detroit machine. That should keep those annoying trips to the gas pump down to a bare minimum.
[Source: Wall Street Journal]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
GoodCheer 2:38PM (5/18/2008)
If you only burn gas on those days when you drive more than 100 miles IN ONE DAY, then a whole slew of new engineering challenges come up relating to having a tank of gas last for several years.
If you insist on lugging around a gas tank, ICE, exhaust system, emissions control system, generator, associated power electronics and control systems then you'd only be getting your money's worth if you use them somewhat regularly. Even the Volt's 40 mile range makes all that stuff a poor investment if it's only used 10 times a year.
I'm still a huge fan of ACPropulsion's idea of a generator in a trailer... maybe one that you can rent. I would think a small generator could also be built into something like a roof-rack box like those Thule coffins you see on the highway. That way you save hundreds of pounds of weight and thousands of dollars worth of equipment for the 95% of the time you aren't going to use it. It's more energy efficient that way AND more financially efficient.
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Joey 6:13PM (5/18/2008)
First of all, a "click" = 1 km. Second, GM has stated over and over that the Volt will have a minimum 40 mile electric range at the end of the battery pack's life (10 years). Nissan hasn't provided the specifics on their car.
Good luck to them, but let's not get ahead ourselves; even Nissan admits that their EV will not reach US shores until 2012.
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Kevin Nugent 7:57PM (5/18/2008)
well isnt everybody offering a "volt" like system these days . That is what happens when one of americas biggest manufacturers creates a car that break new ground and supplies a nich market everybody wans to join in on the fun
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rob 8:41PM (5/18/2008)
Thr other day I was playing with some numbers about Volt fuel consumption and average Us VMT.
What I found was that 30,000 Volts would reduce US daily oil consumption about 2300 barrels/day.
So if other manufacturers want to join in the fun, I'm totally fine with that. We need MILLIONS of EREV's (and EV's) on the roads, replacing the gas hogs. GM can't do it all themselves.
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Doug 8:42PM (5/18/2008)
That trailer idea is pretty cool.
http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm
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Chris M 10:19PM (5/18/2008)
It is possible to keep gasoline good for several years, but it requires careful design to block air and moisture from reaching the fuel, so the light volatiles doesn't evaporate and the fuel doesn't pick up contamination. This means special "bladder" fuel tanks and careful design of the entire fuel system.
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Rich 7:04AM (5/19/2008)
Well, we may wait to purchase a new car until we see the specs for the Nissan EV. We'd much rather have an EV than a hybrid. If we enlarge our current PV system by 20%, this will produce enough power for an EV. Or we could reduce households electric consumption by 20%. That's what we are trying to do now.
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Tim 8:43AM (5/19/2008)
How much $$$$$$ ?
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mycomya 10:59AM (5/19/2008)
That trailer range extender, Doug, is the coolest thing I've seen in a long while. For the 15% of the driving you do beyond the EV's range, just hitch it on and go! What an awesome idea!!
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John Starnes 11:00AM (5/19/2008)
I love the radical looks of the Mixim and hope they build something very close to it.
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Mike Z 12:13PM (5/19/2008)
I kind of find the trailor idea a bad one. If you think about it, the weight of a ICE generator, gas tank, and emission controls is likely under 500 lbs. The weight of a trailer will likely double that. Add the drag and the MPG while using the range extender will likely suffer quite a bit. I believe the AC Genset trailer returned rather bad MPG when it was used.
The entire idea of the Volt with an inboard range extender I consider to be the best solution out there at the time, as it admits the biggest issue with EVs: The cost of the batteries. Therefore, it makes sense to use the batteries when statistically their capacity will be used the most: for the first ~40 or so miles, then rely on the ICE after that. In theory you could extend the EV range to >100 and add an Genset trailer, but I can't see that appealing to a majority of people who are more concerned with the holistic operating costs of a automobile rather than being dead set on EV.
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fnc 2:41PM (5/19/2008)
Re: the gas going bad from disuse. I imagine it would be a simple matter for the car to know when it was last fueled and run the ICE to consume gas before it went bad while informing the driver of what it was doing. Not terribly efficient, but I doubt people would be happy with it sitting there until it went bad. And if it happened often enough, it would drive home the point they should just have an all electric car.
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mycomya 3:52PM (5/19/2008)
According to the webpage Doug cited above, the range extending trailer is approximately 350 lbs. Its a 500cc motorcycle engine with 9.5 gallon capacity tank.
You might think the MPG would be bad. But they report that even with all the conversion losses added up, the gas mileage of this combo is comparable or better than the pure gasoline version of the same vehicle.
ICE and hybrids have higher 'holistic operating costs' than pure EVs. Since batteries are expensive, IMHO the biggest challenge to an affordable EV is one thing: range at highway speed. Mostly, this won't be a problem (only 15% of the time, for most people, right? (Using 50-60 mile EV range as a starting point)).
But for those who want everything... Having an range extender trailer would be like a Thule storage bin on the roof. Extra space (=distance), available when you need it. Simply a generator on wheels for power on the go. Brilliant!
As long as you don't mind the looks, I guess... And it looks a lot better behind an RAV4 than it would behind an Aptera, I'm sure!
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mycomya 4:14PM (5/19/2008)
...and every 5-10 years or so, you may upgrade your EVs batteries and use the trailer less and less, as battery technology improves...
[thanks to GoodCheer for contributing these ideas; great post #1]
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PeterG 4:26PM (4/03/2009)
I would also prefer the Extender trailer you can rent. If I go BEV, I want to do away with the ICE maintenance cycles all together. No exhaust system replacements, no oil changes, no rad fluid changes (or long interval on battery cooling systems), no timing belts etc ....
But when you think about it, you could also just rent a Gas Burner for long trips. I know people who don't have cars but rent them extensively (almost every weekend).
If I had an electric, I could probably rent a Gas Burner 2 or 3 times a year. You could also get a bigger vehicle that you might need for a road trip.
I think Pure BEV or Prius like HEV actually makes more sense in many ways than a EREV where you pay the high price of big batteries, but still have an ICE and systems to maintain, along with the extra weight to haul around.
If you want BEV, get a pure BEV and rent an ICE when you need one. Just like when I rent a big cube truck when I moved.
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