AutoblogGreen

946 of the 1019 Taxis are SUVs?

The escape Hybrid gets 31mpg in the city, and the Highlander only gets 28! a small gasoline car gets that mileage, and guess what -- They aren't filled with toxic batteries!

Can someone explain to me how this is a good thing? They aren't reducing our dependance on forign oil at all, if anything they are making the demand higher! They could have a fleet of 937 Civics that get the same gas mileage!! Instead of mandating that Taxis be hybrid, why don't they put a mpg mandate on Hybrids???

Is anyone else as angry about this as I am?

Reply

And I'm left wondering how the Escape's mileage numbers compare to... say... if the fleet converted to standard Honda Civics. Government leeways on hybrids are complete bullsh*t. They should award these things (like taxis, HOV passes, Express passes) based on actual mileage the vehicle gets... not just based on hybrids that get a smidgen improvement in mileage.

I guess, though, that every little bit helps.

Does the Escape get better mileage than your standard Crown Vic?

Reply

Folks, you need to go check your facts. First, the Hybrid Escape 2wd gets 34mpg city. Second, there are only a very, very, very few cars that are not hybrids and are available for sale in the US that get 30MPG or more in the city. No, not the Honda Civic, it's about 8-9 MPG lower in the city (10MPG lower if you looking to use CNG).

The funny thing is, the ONLY non-hybrid currently available for sale in the US that does get 30MPG or more in the city (there is just ONE!) doesn't even have a back seat, has only 7 cu ft of usable trunk space and requires(?) premium fuel. I'm not sure too many cab companies would be interested.

Reply

Anything that idles its engine for any length of time, like in a cab in a city often in gridlock, is going to get its ass kicked by a hybrid.

Reply

I seem to recall that most of my taxi rides in NYC between June and October have the air conditioning on. What happens to emissions and mileage in the Hybrid Escape when the airco is on?

Reply

* Is anyone else as angry about this as I am? *

Take it easy! Considering the poor state of the roads in much of NYC, the unending gridlock and the desire for 2 or 3 passengers and their luggage to be comfortable; a mid-size SUV isn't a bad option. NYC cabs have traditionally been large unbreakable sedans (Checker, Crown Vic) that can take the unbelievable abuse put on them.

If you think that non-hybrid gas misers like Civics are going to achieve 30 mpg in the city, you're probably way off base. Intense city driving with long waits at numerous lights and the cut-and-thrust tactics that exemplify driving in Manhattan may cut that mileage to high teens or low twenties in a small car. In that event, the Escape hybrid is an excellent choice, both for economy and for the durability of a truck-based suspension.

Reply

* Does the Escape get better mileage than your standard Crown Vic? *

Crown Vics get about 12-14 mpg as NYC taxis. With so much time spent at a standstill or at speeds under 35 mph, hybrids are the way to go.

Reply

Dear Ford,

You've done a wonderful job with the Escape/Mariner Hybrids.

Please don't F@#% it up. You will want to replace this nice and efficient vehicle with something larger and more luxurious. Please don't. Find a way to stop your corporate tradition of messing with a good thing until nobody wants anything to do with it.

Again...good job...now, make many more.

Reply

Those who complain of the hybrid Escape being the top choice just because it is an SUV obviously dont utilize taxis very often.

Comparing it to a Civic? Really?? A Civic taxi. Taxis need to sit four comfortably (5 if you have a cool driver) and loads of luggage. The midsized cars on that list are probably capable of meeting most of those needs, but their mpg is not that much better than the even more practical Escape. There is absolutely no way a compact car could meet those needs. With a hybrid SUV you get the compact mpg with the space of a large vehicle.

Not to mention SULEV or PZEV emissions, which is very significant in dense urban environments.

Every time I get in a hybrid cab I ask the driver how he likes it. Every response has been positive.

One negative, Ford is not making enough Escape hybrids to meet fleet and retail demands. They need to get their heads in the game and learn from the Prius example. Currently they sell less than 2000 a month. I dont see why they could not easily double that figure.

Reply

*The Escape is car-based SUV.*

I honestly just hope that some misguided soul doesn't decide that one of the large GM SUV hybrids (ex. Tahoe) would be a good idea. >.

Reply

dann: There are many reasons the Escape Hybrid is better than the Civic for Taxi service.

Mainly, last I checked the Civic was rated at 25MPG (city) and the Escape Hybrid is rated at 34MPG (city). I'm pretty sure a 36% increase in fuel economy on a more spacious vehicle is more than a "smidgen" improvement. Add that to the AT-PZEV emissions rating of the FEH (ULEV-2 for the Civic) and that's a better reduction in emissions. Let's not forget that reduced emissions was the main target of the NYC move to hybrid taxis. No idling = no emissions.

Also, the Escape Hybrid has more passenger room and more than twice the cargo room. This is one area where taxi companies historically will not compromise.

Now, if you would like to modify your argument and us the Prius, Civic Hybrid or the Camry Hybrid as a better alternative to the Escape Hybrid, then you would have a much stronger argument.

By the way, a standard Crown Vic gets about 13-15MPG in taxi duty and are LEV-II (the taxi vans out there are even worse). It's a no brainer to replace them with ANYTHING that gets gas mileage in the Escape Hybrid's 34MPG range.

Why do you go on so about "toxic" batteries. It's not like they spill all over the place. Don't you realize that GAS IS FAR MORE HARMFUL as it does end up all over the place? All the batteries in the Escape Hybrid are to be recycled once they are no longer in duty. So far, there have been no published reports of batteries needing replacement and there are Escape Hybrid taxis with 150,000+ miles on them. I suggest you visit this site ad educate yourself: http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html

Reply

Good response chris, however a Civic Hybrid or a Prius will not have the luggage capacity a NYC taxi needs. The Civic trunk barely holds a briefcase. The prius with the back seat up would not accommodate any luggage which is critical in NYC. NY gets a lot of tourists.

Reply

but it's simply not possible for an American company to have a more green solution than a Japanese company. Don't you realize that anything American is evil?

Reply

I have a 2002 civic and I've managed to put 3 suitcases in the trunk. 2 big boys and a carry-on, without trouble. Also, I drive like a complete lunatic and I've NEVER gotten below 28mpg. Even when battling the cabbies in manhattan. One would think the idling factor would help the hybrids, but being that AC and/or heat is probably blasting 8 months out of the year, I don't know how much of a difference that makes. Also, I hear that hondas tend to have suspension issues, and god knows I've run head on into some straight up holes in manhattan. So maybe civics aren't a great idea. But bottom line, minutae aside, mpg is more important than h. You can't really argue that point...

Reply

I'm a bit surprised not more of them are Camrys.

dann bohn
Ever seen that big heavy black box under your hood with some wires coming out of it ? That's your lead acid battery, and those ~40 lbs of lead in there are pretty darn toxic.
Lead is more toxic than Nickel metal hydride, and since it's so cheap, it's much more likely to get dumped and result in lead leaching into your water.
The Prius, for example, uses a smaller lead battery than a regular car (good), plus a 100 lb NiMH battery (not so great). But the chances of that being thrown out are tiny, since Toyota will pay for (a few hundred bucks) and recycle/refurbish that battery. And in a few years, most hybrids should be Li ion anyway, so the Ni issue should go away.
I'm not saying that there aren't extra environmental costs associated with hybrid batteries (and we can debate about the relative merits all night long). But check under your own hood first before throwing stones.

Here's some more info on battery toxicity.
http://www.hybridcars.com/battery-toxicity.html

Reply

I think we can all agree that Dann has been properly schooled. But there is one other advantage to these taxis. The doors don't hit the damn curb when you get in and out of them! I know, that sounds petty, but when you are jumping in and out of taxis as quick as possible while they are blocking traffic, it matters. Also, it's nice to be able to lift your bags over the back seat instead of having to go around to the trunk. It saves time, which saves traffic, which saves gas. I hate full size useless SUV's, and I think these taxis are great. BTW, I'm a big 6'2, and I would pass if a Civic taxi tried to pick me up. I know what the back seats in those cars are like.

Reply

Isn't 100% "double" and 200% "triple"?

Reply

I live in newyo9rk city and i think given the options it is one of the premium choices all others either have inadqeute space / height problems or cannot stand the test of time in nyc

Reply

The figures are a bit skewed, because the NYC taxi commission had not allowed the Toyota Prius for taxi use, in spite of its successful use in other areas. I'm glad to see they relented, and finally saw the light.

I suspect that in the next few years we'll see the numbers for the Prius, Camry Hybrid, and Altima Hybrid rise dramatically.

All of those hybrids except the Honda Civic use a planetary geared "split path" hybrid CVC transmission that is very responsive. Unlike most automatic transmissions, it never hesitates or stalls when trying to accelerate from a stop - Taxi drivers gotta love that!

Throwback: The Prius has plenty of room in the back for luggage, though admittedly not as much as the Escape hybrid.

Reply

Keep the SUV's for airport-hotel traffic, but Civics or Prius would be perfect for most, maybe 90%?, of all taxi rides... one or 2 passengers without luggage.

Reply