The karma of lithium ion batteries: how Tibet plays a role in green car technology
The recent Tibetan independence demonstrations and the Chinese response have, in this Olympic year, turned the eyes of the world towards the "roof of the world." There have been some who have called for the boycott of the Olympic games and Chinese products as a result of the harshness of the "crackdown". Our own president has even gotten involved and has asked the Chinese Premier, Hu-Jintao, to hold talks between the the Dali Lama's representatives and the Chinese government, though I suspect even the suggestion of such a rapproachment wasn't warmly received.What does any of this have to do with more-environmentally-sensitive transportation? Well, I came across this article recently that informed me that the source of much of the lithium in the batteries that power our laptops, cell phones and soon, our hybrid and electric cars, is mined at the Chabyer Salt Lake in the Tibetan Autonomous Region. This is the largest source of known lithium reserves in the world, according to the China-Tibet Information Center, and it has helped China become the largest producer and user of lithium ion batteries. Yes, we mine a lot of lithium here in the U.S. but that is used mostly for a host of other products.
In the process of mulling all this over during the past week I have read about the history of Tibet and its entanglements with other countries and contemplated the stances of the various "sides" involved. I haven't reached anything approaching a firm conclusion but the process has been a beneficial learning experience.
In the end, I can only offer this information as an example of how our actions in this modern, tightly-connected world might affect people living in distant lands and how "treading lightly" might prevent that boomerang of karma from sneaking up behind us.
[Source: Green Energy News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Henry 10:03PM (3/30/2008)
Funny how the news don't say how before Chinese took over Tibet, the people were forced to become peasants with no schooling allowed. Beautiful women and little girls were forced to have sex with Dalai Lama and other nobles.
When China took over children went to school and Dalai Lama had no power over its people. No person or family was forced to be a servant.
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Ping 10:42PM (3/30/2008)
The Tibetans have experienced GDP growth of over 12% per year since the chinese took over the region, which means the standard of living Doubles every 6 years.
Despite this, the Tibetans are rioting in the streets, setting fire to shops belonging to chinese people who are trying to make an honest living.
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Chris M 11:24PM (3/30/2008)
Interesting that shortly after this was posted, there were two posts disparaging the native Tibetans, libeling the Dalai Lama, and glorifying the "wonderful benefits" of the Chinese takover of that land. Sounds like a Communist Chinese disinformation campaign, scanning the blogsphere for any mention of Tibet or the Dalai Lama, and responding with lies to whitewash the repressive nature of their dictatorship.
The "Improved GDP" has gone to Han Chinese that have invaded, the native Tibetans haven't done nearly as well. It is not suprising that the Tibetans are rebelling against a government that supresses their freedoms, and it is not suprising that a totalitarian dictatorship would spin the situation with lies, and pretend they were the victims!
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Domenick Yoney 12:25AM (3/31/2008)
@Henry: Do you have a credible source for that statement? I've heard similar things said about different ethnicities before. For example, during the Balkan conflict, I was told of the horrendous sexually perverted behaviour of one of the peoples involved. It wasn't believable then and it isn't now.
@Ping: As the commenter after you, Chris M noted, the conditions for native Tibetans hasn't improved as much as one might be led to believe. Regardless of that, many people would rather be poor and free than well-off and subjugated.
As for people rioting in the streets, you might want to ask yourself why this occurred. Was it just a planned occurrence or was it motivated by an event of real or perceived injustice. I strongly suspect the latter.
@Chris M: I believe in this case, the previous commenters are not part of any organized disinformation campaign. Those are just their opinions.
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Tim 1:14AM (3/31/2008)
I'm pretty sure most world lithium reserves are in the atacama desert in Chile not Tibet.
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armmat 1:29AM (3/31/2008)
@ MIKE....
Why would I believe you and not them?
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armmat 1:30AM (3/31/2008)
SORRY I MEAN CHRIS M.......
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Chris M 3:08AM (3/31/2008)
Armmat: You could do some research and check out the facts, if you want to take the time.
But if that is too much work, just consider which is more likely:
1. That a religious leader, renown for his wisdom and gentleness, had been blocking schooling and raping women and girls? That once freed from the supposed "rapist ruler" and with education and a rising standard of living, the people would protest loudly, wishing to go back to the old ignorant poor and victimized ways?
OR
2. That a dictatorship, well known for brutal repression of its own people, would be even more repressive of a poor country it conquered? That the conquered people would protest and riot to expell their hated overlords? That the dictators would spread lies and nasty rumours about their enemies as part of their propaganda campaign? Have you forgotten the events at Tianamin Square so soon?
You can choose 1. or 2. but not both. Come on, now. You have a brain, use it!
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The inconvenient treehugger 4:12AM (3/31/2008)
@Chris M: "Have you forgotten the events at Tianamin Square so soon?" The mainland Chinese do not have access to information on Tiananmen Square 1989 events (with little help from Google).
Google image search: http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen
Google image search in China:
http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen
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Domenick Yoney 4:50AM (3/31/2008)
@#5Tim: It's very complicated. That is why I used the phrase, "according to the China-Tibet Information Center. I have seen claims that Bolivia has the largest reserves but that report also seems to contain errors.
I know the search for more reserves is definitely ongoing with discoveries occurring in different countries. Also China has discovered a new way of recovering lithium from the Tibetan Lakes.
I think it's difficult to definitively discern who has the most reserves at this point.
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Tim 9:02AM (3/31/2008)
So, the Communist Chinese control the world's lithium? That's nice......
Tell me more about EEstor again.
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KarenRei 12:11PM (3/31/2008)
It's never so simple. Lithium isn't exactly a difficult element to come by. The price of recovering lithium carbonate (which is used in li-ion batteries) varies depending on the source, and so depending on what your market price is, the amount of reserves in any given region can vary by orders of magnitude. Many places that process salts for minerals don't bother to recover the lithium if they don't think it's worth a recovery circuit at current prices -- but the lithium is still there, and at higher prices, they'd certainly recover it. And if lithium carbonate prices were to rise enough, people would just recover lithium from seawater, so any coastal country would have roughly equivalent lithium reserves (for all practical purposes, unlimited).
Lithium carbonate is only a tiny portion of the cost of lithium ion batteries, so even if we had to get it from seawater and had to pay several times more for it, you'd hardly notice. Lithium carbonate costs about $4.50/kg (http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lithium/450300.pdf). Li-ions cost $300-2000 per kWh, and a kWh of li-ion batteries uses about a kilogram of lithium carbonate. Thus, you're looking at a fraction of a percent of total cost being the price of the lithium carbonate. Having to extract our lithium from seawater will certainly not be a showstopper.
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rgseidl 12:19PM (3/31/2008)
Tibet, long a medieval theocracy, was one aspect of the "Great Game" that Russia and the British Empire played in Asia in the 19th and early 20th centuries. At the time, once-mighty China had become weak and divided, a source of humiliation for its ruling cadres. By the time Mao Tse Tung had won against Chiang Kai Chek, the outside powers had been greatly weakened by WW2. The Han Chinese proceeded to reconquer Tibet as a matter of national pride mixed with the zeal of still starry-eyed revolutionaries.
Today, Tibetan calls for autonomy or secession represent a direct challenge not just to the totalitarian fiction of Communist benevolence but also, to the territorial integrity of the PRC. Accommodating the Tibetan leadership's demands for genuine autonomy - not to mention calls for outright secession from other quarters - would seriously weaken the position of the Communist party throughout the Middle Kingdom. Despotic regimes either rule with an iron fist or not at all, hence the orchestrated repression and propaganda.
The fact that Tibet has large mineral deposits that have recently become valuable only exacerbates Beijing's determination to crush any dissent. Such, unfortunately, is the nature of empires.
@ Tim -
no, they just have one very large mine. The US is currently the largest producer. Lithium ore deposits exist all over the world. In addition, the superheated water spewed out by black smokers at the bottom of the sea contains about 7 ppm lithium.
As for EEstor, we'd all like to hear from them but they are highly secretive/vaporware artists.
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Ralph 1:15PM (3/31/2008)
Hmmm, very large lithium deposits in Tibet. Another reason that China has risked so much international criticism to conquer and occupy such a small country. Unfortunately, history is full of such shameful events from many different regimes, but in no way does that ever make it acceptable.
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armmat 3:57PM (3/31/2008)
@ CHRIS M....
I'm sorry man...everything is suspect these days. Hmmm...you mean the Dali Lama would never do anything like rape and so on....as would Catholic priests never do that to boys either right?
Also, we all knew about WMDs...they were all over the place....research and Fox News told us so.
Lord knows...I'm not a huge fan of Chinese "ways of life" and we all know that they do certain things that are considered huge moral violations, they overfish, cause alot of pollution. But so does Canada...have you seen the mass killing of seals by Canadian seal hunters? Have you investigated how much pollution US manufacturers produce illegally while the EPA looks the other way?
Even though Terrorism is the new fear mongering word used on sheeple today, Communism still lingers and is used on China and other "threats" against the US still...they can't call China a terrorist state just yet. So let's beat up on the Chinese for slapping down their own people WHILE we here in the us beat down Negros and brown people, hose them down, beat them to a pulp, segregate them, etc...wasn't that just around the corner in the history of this nation of judgementals?
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CHENHENGYEE 7:01PM (3/31/2008)
I am a structural analyst, I want to tell you a true story.
In the early 70's our company interviewed consultants to share some of our overflow workloads, our chief engineer would not listen to those who did not have any experience on our work.
Today, there are so many people commented on Tibet issues like their family affairs, yet, most of them do not even know where is Tibet.
Freedom of speech is fine as long as the speech is the speaker's personal experience.
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Tim 12:21AM (4/01/2008)
Rafael and others-
While SQM is pretty much the only producer in Chile, the entire Atacama salt flats have enormous reserves. The same goes for any salt flat anywhere. So, the Uyuni salt flats in Bolivia have them(though I would count them part of the Atacama), and those in Tibet have them. I'm sure the salt flats in Utah have a bunch too. Lithium isn't a rare element, and reserves are calculated based on market price so reserves will no doubt rise as price rises. Current price rises have more to do with processing investment lagging growth than a shortage of accessible lithium. I'm sure you all are aware of all of this. Sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing.
Personally, I think all this talk is a red herring. SQM produces over 30% of the lithium carbonate in the world and had revs of $180 million due to lithium production last year. For china to be fighting in Tibet over such an insignificant number and non-strategic resource is ridiculous assertion.
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not going 11:29AM (4/01/2008)
O.K. My original post was much detailed and longer than this but i'll keep short n simple..."The Anglo American Mining Company" Tibetans displaced for modern convience???... "The An MBendi Tribe" for Platinum used in cars to reduce emmisons!?? raping the land and (figuretivly) the people?!?...Think about it when u by that status symbol. This will not go on forever..!! Theres "InBaLaNcE" The Earth Will break!!
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George Myers 3:06PM (4/01/2008)
Recent democratic elections in Bhutan and the upcoming transition to democracy in Nepal may have some influence on the problems there. The Chinese government "let go" Outer Mongolia which is now a democracy, it seems part of the problem. If it were up to me, I would let the Sherpa woman, whose been three times to the top of "Mt. Everest" to carry the torch perhaps. It's been discussed that the Sherpas share linguistic similarities with the Tibetans. Kathmandu had an interesting electrical vehicle program going I read in one of the electric magazines a few years ago. When I was in third grade Edmund Hillary visited our class. He later lost his daughter in Nepal, a wing flap iced up on a small plane. Have you seen an electric airplane motor? I thought I did.
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Cal 9:00PM (5/04/2008)
You have significant, low cost, brine-based lithium deposits in 2 locations: Tibetan deserts & Andean deserts. Countries involved: China/Tibet & Chile/Bolivia/Argentia. That's it. We do NOT produce any significant Li-Ion battery grade lithium carbonate in the US. We mined that out decades ago.
Lithium carbonate goes at about $7500/ton making the 93,000 ton global industry worth roughly $700 million. For comparison, this is less than 1/1000th of the $1,000,000+ million oil industry. Not big. Surely it will grow, prices will rise, but while San Francisco might have a high % of Priuses in 10 years, how many of the 5 billion people making $20,000 Prius? Keeping in line with significant digits, the answer is 0.
We don't *have* to produce lithium from the current lowest-cost brine resources. It can be obtained from glass-like substances and through other syntheses as well.
Bottom line: I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it.
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