AutoblogGreen

There are several European countries now where ads that claim something is green which isn't green at all will land you in a whole heap of trouble....

Things like this ad I believe show just how wider the rift is getting between the two mindsets....This isn't just such a blatant example of this, but involves convincing children as well....

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I still call this 'Greenwashing'.

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What exactly is Green? What is the definition? As far as I know there is no legal definition of what green is, so companies can claim whatever they want. A car that gets 1 mpg higher could be considered green relative to the previous model.

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Karl-Uwe, that's why EU car companies use blue instead of green now.

This vehicle, if used properly, is as green as a Prius is if used properly. We need to attack the boneheads who buy SUVs to drive one person around, not the companies who try to make SUVs more efficient.

No knucklehead should be buying one of these unless they are really going to use it to its fullest. Same with the RX400h.

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It's 50% more efficient than the vehicle it replaces. It's green.

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" It's 50% more efficient than the vehicle it replaces. It's green."

Or in this case 50% better than "awful" fuel efficiency is merely pitiful. Talk to me when you can make something the size of a VW Passat wagon - yes it is a "real" family vehicle - get 50 real world mpg:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=268702

The reason you can't use the "green" label in some places in europe is b/c no ICE vehicle can boast zero emissions across the board. There are those that emit less than others but there is nothing out there that has zero impact. Hey they have high standards over there and they don't have a Madison Ave. and the Big 2.5 to cater to so maybe that's why they can be more objective in these matters.

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my most humblest opinion is that driving around in a 4-tonne vehicle has nothing to do with being green...if it were say electric or CNG and we were talking about a bus (let's face it, this is a bus) to carry 20 kids to school then that would be very different. but we're not. in Europe, on average, the driver of the vehicle above would be driving something from say a Toyota Aygo to a Citroen C4 (which is already a large car in Europe, and ample for a family )

how do the emissions of the Chevy compare with these?
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=15170
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=16458
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=16475

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When I think of "green" cars, I tend to think of the official thresholds in terms of CO2 (which are also directly proportional to the other emissions listed in the VCAcarfueldata database for any given car) imposed in Spain, France, UK and Italy.

Pretty much all are classifying a green car as a car with 120g CO2/km or less, while at the same time cars above 225 g CO2/km are considered heavy polluters. I personally think of 160 g already as polluting heavily since large cars like the Citroen C5 come below that mark nowadays and at a very affordable price.

The "green" threshold of 120 g CO2/km encompasses cars like the Toyota Aygo and Yaris, the Fiat 500 and Grande Punto, the Citroen C1, C2 and C3 and the Peugeot 207.

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/information/how-to-use-the-data-tables.asp#petrol

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Karl-Uwe:
This vehicle doesn't weigh 4 tons.

I cannot comprehend how you compare this to an Aygo. I'm not saying people shouldn't buy Aygos. I feel people should buy Aygos. But this vehicle does not have the same buying audience as the Aygo. Someone who buys this in the US wouldn't magically buy a tiny car if they were transported to Europe.

If you buy this vehicle instead of a comparable one, you will cut your CO2 emissions by 1/3rd. That's a good thing.

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Let's not take the Aygo. I take it this isn't available in the US. Let's take the Yaris.

The person who is driving the Chevy could be driving a Yaris just as well down Madison Ave. Now that's an interesting cut in CO2 isn't it?..... if we then want to see what happens with a hybrid Yaris or a CNG Yaris, well that could be interesting, but the cars pictured above (SUVs) are being decimated in Europe.

check this out:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/03/07/suv-sales-nosedrive-in-spain/1#c10896709

does anyone know this Chevy's emissions (either hybrid or not??)

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the Yaris certainly does have a very different buying audience in the US. but that was my point exactly. In Europe it's considered a sensible car to buy, while in the US the Chevy is a sensible choice. Furthermore, hybrid or not, most Europeans would agree that the Chevy represents an awful amount of waste and pollution. Even the Japanese would agree with this and, if I've understood correctly, so do the Chinese

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Sounds more like they're trying to convince kids that they need the largest vehicle possible. Isn't that the attitude that got us into the current mess?

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#9: "Someone who buys this in the US wouldn't magically buy a tiny car if they were transported to Europe."

I am sure he or she would. Gasoline is $7 to $9 per gallon here, in many countries there is anual taxation based on displacement and/or CO2 emission and some countries charge luxury taxes on vehicles with more than 2.0 or more than 3.0l displacement. Then there is a VAT of 15 to 22%. A privately owned SUV with a V8 that is considered small in the US easily costs $100.000 in Norway, $70.000 in counties like germany.

So someone beamed from the US to letzt say the UK probably would opt for a Ford S-Max with the 2.0l diesel to haul his kids and stuff around. If beamed to France he would probably take the Citroen C4 Grand Picasso with the same engine. If beamed to Switzerland where diesel fuel is taxed higher he might go for the S-Max with the Volvo I5 turbo (which actually is just greener on the autobahn than the hybrid SUV, not in the city).

Calculated on five years these vehicles would save him or her $20.000 to $40.000. So it's partly an economical decision to buy a greener vehicle.

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Indeed, I think the problem here is the fact that marketing is answering a need. Bigger, more powerful cars are more interesting to drive, and they also have answers other needs, like social image or carrying stuff around. You don't need a bigger car to carry the stuff. We are 4 back home, and the bigger car we've had was (is) a Golf Mk. V. Plenty of space for kids, people, stuff and the like on holidays.

But that's not really the point, is it? This isn't even trying to tell present children that, 15 years from now, they'll have to buy a big SUV. I think the whole Hybrid SUV stuff is a way to try and change society's perception of the SUV, and to lower fuel figures. Indeed, as a product they are greener than the same SUV, with the same engine, without the hybrid system.

Car makers want to keep on selling SUVs because there's more money to be made in that segment. SUV are premium, they bring a bigger profit. This is a way of trying to keep on selling an expensive item that's losing appeal. It's, if you look at it in a "moral" way, perverting a "good" technology in an "evil" product. But it's also a way of giving people want they want - and helping them deflect criticism for doing so.

Carlos Ferreira
http://www.greencarvalue.blogspot.com

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I'm not too worried about this SUV becoming very popular as the percentage of people will to spend $50k on any single vehicle is very small. What I do have a problem is this thing along with the Malibu and large Lexuses getting tax credits. Anything that gets less than 30 mpg shouldn't get a thing for supposedly being green.

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Karl-Uwe:
In the US, the Yaris is considered a solid little car that is bought by people who can't afford to buy something better (meaning bigger). This makes it difficult to offer good small cars in the US. This is why our Focus is a different vehicle than the European one, for example. The European one is a better vehicle, and thus costs more. In the US, since the only people who buy a small vehicle like the Focus are people who can't afford a bigger one, raising the price of the Focus will kill sales, so they sell a cheaper Focus here.

Mattias:
A large portion of the people who buy these large SUVs can afford to buy anything they want, even at the prices you mention. They can afford expensive gas too.

A lot of people are trying to tie what people should want to what they do want. Hey, I've done it too, look at the Audi R8 V12 TDi article and see what I said there. But the reality is that at this moment, there still exist a few people in the world who either need a huge SUV and there's a lot more who don't need it, but will buy it anyway. If these people buy this instead of a comparable vehicle, the amount of fuel saved will be enormous and the reduction in environmental impact is enormous.

We need to attack the problem of emissions and oil consumption from many many angles. A vehicle like this is part of that attack. I hope to see a lot more solutions in the future, ones that make more sense for the average person.

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@ Why not the LS2/LS7. I'm sorry but you are wrong when you say that large portion of those who buy these Suv's would buy the same in Europe..they definitely wouldn't.. the vast majority of the buyers of these SUV's can't even afford to buy them in the US, but just like with their homes, they got an easy loan and with the winds of recession blowing.... SUV's and especially these new hybrid SUV's will have a hard time.

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I doubt that's got anything to do with it. You can make small cars as 'fashionable' as you want to make them. SMART have technical features which are poor at best, but up to 2005 were selling very well. Minis are very expensive for what they are, and are currently selling very well. The European Car of The Year, the FIAT 500 is outselling by far its production capacity.

I would say this relates more to environmental regulations, or lack thereof. I suspect that in the US there are other interests which prevent any real environmental measures from setting in. We have our own US in Europe, in the shape of Germany. German cars (small, compact or large) on average pollute more than their French or Italian counterparts. This, combined with the larger number of large models have meant that Germany is unwilling to put any real environmental measures in place. Spain, France, UK and Italy all have tax/rebate systems for new cars and/or yearly registration charges based on CO2, while there is no sign of this happening in Germany. Cities like London, Stockholm and Milan now have in place a system for charging drivers with high-emission vehicles. Several German cities are now actually banning EURO5 compacts without a DPF while allowing Cayennes or Touaregs with DPFs, despite having much worse emissions. The reason Germany has such a different system in place is more than a little obvious. The EU published an official report in November of last year showing that the German manufacturers pollute much more than their French or Italian counterparts.

I have a proposal that should make everybody happy. I think we should swap Germany and California between the EU and US! what an eloquent solution, maybe a little difficult to put into effect, but brilliant all the same !.....

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I never needed a tank to carry all my "stuff".........

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Too bad they didn't have a "Paper Prius" there...

Two Prius could carry up to 10 people (versus Tahoe Hybrid 8) yet get the same overall fuel milage as the Tahoe Hybrid. Or one could drive a few people in one Prius at twice the fuel economy...

Ironically, buying two Prius cost about the same as buying one Tahoe Hybrid!

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