Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Chevrolet, GM, Green Daily
Chevy Volt price watch: $35,000
It seems like GM is finding the middle ground. When the Chevy Volt was first announced, a price tag of $30,000 was bandied about. Then, more recently, we heard that $40,000 was a possibility. Now, according to Canada.com and confirmed by WIRED, GM is saying that the likely target is $35,000 (yes, that's U.S. dollars, not Canadian, even though the two are pretty even these days). Even though this is more than initially proposed, GM doesn't see it as a hurdle to bring out the first-gen models. GM spokesman Dee Allen told WIRED that, "We had set a target of $30,000, but if it comes in closer to $35,000 and it means meeting the 2010 deadline, that's the direction we're going to go."
According to GM, it's the power drain caused by things like the windshield wipers and audio system that's posing a problem. Without an alternator, the electricity needed by the stereo takes away power that could be going to turn the wheels. Allen said: "You really start taking away from the range when you're using 10-speaker audio systems, wipers. These systems need to be redone, and they are being redone." But not in time for 2010. First-gen Volts, GM says, will need to have "redundant systems," something that later models will probably not have.
Gallery: Chevy Volt Concept
Related:
[Source: WIRED]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
brian 6:49PM (2/12/2008)
35 Kisn't bad for a fully electric vehicle, especially a first gen. http://www.tagsum.com/videos/10312/Chevy-Volt-price-watch-35-000
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jake 7:23PM (2/12/2008)
If quality isn't too bad then the $35k price will be acceptable. Quality should be as good if not better than the malibu for people to swallow the $35k price. I'm surprised windshield wipers and audio system takes so much off range. Then again it has only a 40 mile pack so it doesn't have much range to work with in the first place.
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TIMMAH! 7:38PM (2/12/2008)
Yeah, how's Mad Mike gonna pimp this thing out with the 24" MTX Jackhammer?
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J 8:40PM (9/30/2008)
I don't understand. Why don't they just take the stereo system completely out of the car? This would significantly lower the cost of the car and eliminate the design flaw caused by the lack of the alternator.
I love music and I am saying this. This is not meant to be a ride to pimp but rather a unique opportunity to be kind to both your wallet and the enviroment. Bring your iPod with you and headphones if your want music in the car, you know? If this doesn't sound acceptable, then this car is not for you.
why not the LS2LS7? 7:39PM (2/12/2008)
Isn't this exactly what Toyota said would cause GM problems and GM said, approximately, "shut up"?
They called them "hotel loads" in the article below.
http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/851.html
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rgseidl 7:41PM (2/12/2008)
All of the electric peripherals in a conventional car are fed by a 12V grid which can sustain up to ~2000W. Normally, only a fraction of that is actually consumed.
Airco worst case: ~5,000W
There are glass formulations that can block infrared light, but they are yellow-greenish and probably only acceptable for the side and rear windows. With expensive special coatings, similar infrared blocking is possible for a clear windshield. The best way to reduce A/C load is to prevent the heat from coming in.
More prosaically, A/C load can be adapted to the number of passengers actually in the vehicle using a CO2 sensor in the cabin. VW already installs those in its models.
Drive motor: ~40,000W sustained at 65MPH
A/C can be briefly suspended during hard acceleration events, when the motor draws much more power from the batteries.
Note that GM never said the Volt would deliver the full all-electric range in all weather conditions. However, their explanation about running out of juice early because of minor consumers like the stereo and wipers sounds fishy to me.
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bolhuijo 8:24PM (2/12/2008)
rgseidl, are you sure about that 40kW number for 65mph? For an aerodynamic car, isn't 20hp (15kW) closer to reality?
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meme 8:42PM (2/12/2008)
Rgseidl: Glass already does a pretty good job of blocking infrared. Not as good as polycarbonate, but still pretty good. That's why people make greenhouses out of it ;) Absorbing more infrared helps trap heat *in*. If you want to reduce solar heating, you need to block the visible spectrum, and in a car, I'm not sure that's such a great idea. Perhaps polarization filters?
Anyways, what GM has done here reminds me a lot of one of my friends from high school, Derrick Knox. Derrick's family was from a very conservative branch of the Lutheran church. In the middle of high school, Derrick suddenly converted to Mormonism. His parents practically disowned him. He did the whole Mormon thing for a while, put forth the effort, you know, then ultimately converted back to a more liberal branch of the Lutheran Church. His parents bought him a car.
Now, some of us were thinking, after this all happened: had Derrick simply become a more liberal Lutheran, his parents would probably have practically disowned him, the way he did when he became a Mormon. Instead, he got a car out of the whole thing. It almost made us wonder if this was an intentional ploy on his part.
I see GM as doing the same thing. They set a target for $30k. Most people saw that as a good price point for selling the ~40k cars per year that they need to to make a profit, and there was a lot of speculation that if the price rose any, they wouldn't be able to make it. As time went on, they could tell they weren't going to make that $30k number. So, they put the number $40k out there for a couple weeks, let it get bandied about, let everyone get panicked and say it's way too much, they'll never sell. Then they go back down to $35k, and everyone talks about how that's a reasonable price for a mass-market plug-in hybrid, good for them!
That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it ;)
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roz 9:08PM (2/12/2008)
what is up with that ad? disgusting. I don't understand the message. are they saying that efforts to be green are stupid like the one shown? why don't they stfu, get off their asses and release a green car. its no joke that their products are destroying the world. hope they go bankrupt. f them.
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meme 12:33AM (2/13/2008)
Roz: You missed the thread about the ad. This was played on Adult Swim. If you don't get it, watch Adult Swim for a couple of evenings first.
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Chris 8:01AM (2/13/2008)
roz sounds like one of those hate the world because his life sucks and he needs to blame other people types... all too typical on the internet where they can lash out and not worry about someone holding them accountable.
I hope GM does get this off the ground. Perhaps it will finally get us off the damn 12 volt systems into 42volt or higher ones.
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Peter L 8:22AM (2/13/2008)
The Canadian dollar has been valued at up to more than 10% over the USA dollar recently. Yesterday it was 1%. The rate varies daily but since September 2007 it has been higher.
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Tim 9:16AM (2/13/2008)
If I remember properly, the target price was WELL BELOW $30K, so GM is off target by a MUCH wider margin than is being reported here.
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rgseidl 11:12AM (2/13/2008)
@ bolhuijo -
the Volt concept, as pictured above, has the aerodynamics of a brick. I don't think it'll go very fast on 15kW. You are correct, though, something like the Loremo can make do with a lot less power.
@ meme -
infrared blocking works both ways, but the power of the incoming solar radiation is much greater than that of sources in the interior. That's why architects constructing buildings in hot climates are always looking for ways to keep direct sunlight out. Of course, some infrared rays will make it in if you want to have daylight illumination and/or a view out. Among other things, ventilation keeps the resulting heat from accumulating; A/C is only used if ventilation is not enough to maintain a comfortable temperature.
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dean 12:38PM (2/13/2008)
Looks like GM will have to put in a lot of innovations for this car. Well, tinting windows to use less A/C isn't really advanced, but knowing when to turn off A/C automatically in instances its not needed will take some smarts. Other ways to reduce load:
1. No more than 4 speakers at 150 watts.
2. Premium cloth seats that don't require heaters like leather does.
3. Use as much aluminum as possible (in hood, suspension, rear deck-lid, etc.)
4. See if Bosch is making those smaller, lighter motors for windows and whatnot.
5. Mechanical seat adjusters (lighter?)
6. Smaller windows...hey, glass is heavy.
Anyways, none of this is new, GM can figure it out. Make it light, less drain on the electrical system.
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calebe 9:20AM (2/14/2008)
35K? pffft. forget it.
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kevlau 12:58PM (3/13/2008)
I want one. I've been wanting to build an electirc S-10 for several months which will cost about $12-15K with only a 40-50 mile range. Rather pay 35k for the real deal. Fed up with these B.S. inflated gas prices which shouldn't be over $1.00 a gallon. We're all getting screwed w/o KY.
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Chris M 9:50PM (3/29/2008)
Don: What you are proposing is an old fashioned device called a rotary inverter. Technically, it will work, but it is very inefficient and heavy, and would seriously cut into driving range. A much more efficient and lighter weight solution is an electronic DC-DC converter, perhaps with a 12 volt buffer battery, and that's the most likely solution.
Theoretically, they could redesign all the electrical accessories to use the same high voltage electricity that the drive uses, but that would be very expensive to have custom components that couldn't be used in other cars.
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Don 2:58PM (3/31/2008)
I'm sorry for you people, you seem a little short sighted.
As for the power-consumption problem: Stay away from the altenator, go back to GENERATORS, attach them to the axles, while the vehicle is moving, an aux. (Accessory) battery can be charged. even more than one could be. And why can't the cars main system be charged this way too.
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Don 3:14PM (3/31/2008)
Just remember, Old Fashioned isn't always a bad thing, sometimes we need to go back to basics to solve some simple problems. Chris, you seem to be over thinking this. These generators wouldn't have to be so heavy, with todays materials. And there would not have to be any re-engineering of products.
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