Filed under: Hybrid, Ford, AutoblogGreen Exclusive, Chicago Auto Show
Chicago 2008: Just how many hybrids has General Motors sold?
Just how many hybrids has General Motors sold? Apparently not very many. We all know the Prius is the 800lb gorilla of the hybrid segment with sales of between 800,000 and 900,000 so far. A reader left a link to an IRS website in a comment the other day. The site lists which vehicles are still eligible for federal tax credits which get phased out as sales for each manufacturer increase. According to the last update in October 2007, General Motors had only sold a total of 9,577 hybrid vehicles by the end of September 2007. At a lunch discussion with GM North America President Troy Clarke today at the Chicago Auto Show, I posed the question of how many hybrids the company had sold. According to Clarke until now GM had not been very aggressive in marketing their hybrid models. He explained that they were still feeling their way in the market and the time period covered by those numbers was prior to the launch of the 2008 Saturn Vue and Chevy Malibu mild hybrids along with the two-mode hybrid SUVs. GM actually started shipping the hybrid Tahoes and Yukons during the first week of January and ran an ad for the Yukon during the Super Bowl. Clarke says that now that five of these hybrids are shipping and five more are coming later this year, they will be pushing them a lot more. Hopefully by the end of this year that number will grow by an order of magnitude.
[Source: General Motors]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Mort 9:00PM (2/06/2008)
GM is a finance company first, a pension and health care plan second, and a distant automaker third. They are incompetent and morally and fiscally bankrupt. They don't build quality, their engineering sux, the only thing good I can say about them is that they quit doing sub-prime mortagages.
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dusanmal 9:25PM (2/06/2008)
GM just doesn't understand this part of the market. People interested in hybrids are not interested in more power and larger size. They want better quality, modern technology and low impact (economically and pollution wise). GM offering centered on what I'd call fake hybrids (electrically assisted gas engines) and on using electric power to provide excess power. Perfect examples are older Saturn VUE "green line" where the electric motor is just "slapped in" with minimal benefits to the customer and the new "better" Saturn VUE hybrid, which although at least have fully functional hybrid system uses it to overpower the vehicle (V6 + 110 hp electrical motors, enough for drag racing) and not to provide customers with the advantages they want. Marketing is still set on power and size which is not what hybrid owners want (just look at best selling Prius). If I engineered hybrid VUE it would contain highly efficient, sub 100 hp, sub 2 lit. 4 cyl. engine coupled with efficient 50-60 hp electric system and new materials to reduce overall weight.
Well engineered example like that would come close to gas 4 cyl VUE performance at average 45 mpg. And would sell at Prius-comparable pace.
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Mort 9:30PM (2/06/2008)
Sorry to write the same rant every time you post something about GM. I will stop now. :)
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Dave B 9:35PM (2/06/2008)
Mort, would you buy a Volt if it is produced as promised? I plan on it.
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john1701a 9:40PM (2/06/2008)
http://www.gm.com/explore/fuel_economy/altfuel/emissions/50state/pdf/2008MY.pdf
Look up Tahoe in that link provided. Of the 50-State offerings, the hybrid version is actually the dirtiest! BIN-5 is most certainly not green.
Next look up the hybrid version of Malibu. That model, along with the others comes in at a pitiful BIN-5.
The hybrid Vue is a little better, at BIN-4. But what's the point? Most traditional gas vehicles are that clean already.
The genuinely clean hybrids deliver emission ratings of SULEV & PZEV, which are most definitely a big improvement.
MPG alone is greenwashing. Reduction of smog-related emissions is required too. And it looks like the market noticing that.
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cj 11:34PM (2/06/2008)
Good points John!
And I'll also point out, for you, that GM offers more PZEV models than anyone... including Toyota.
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john1701a 11:54PM (2/06/2008)
More PZEV models isn't what matters. It's how many are actually sold. That's what makes the difference.
Of course, a PZEV guzzler is just another example of greenwashing.
Improvement of smog-related emissions without improvement of MPG is a problem too. We need *BOTH* to truly be green.
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Peekoyle 12:15AM (2/07/2008)
Yeah, GM will never get back to No.1. Toyota will own them for the next 10 yrs at least.
They are the the ADHD suffering fat child of the Car World.
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Mort 12:33AM (2/07/2008)
Mort, would you buy a Volt if it is produced as promised?
Not a chance, I am hoping for a total economic collapse. I will keep my (paid off) ten year old truck, which I don't drive, and my bicycle, which I do ride a lot, until hell freezes over. I spend as little money as possible. The whole monetary system needs an enema, and it is killing this planet. I will not be a party to my own demise.
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JJ 3:00AM (2/07/2008)
This has nothing to do with this article but I was wondering if someone can re-post or make an entry on
this article:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=450781&page=2&topart=luxury
I thought it was important and a great idea to go into MPD, miles per dollar rather then just relying on MPG. thanks
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Derek 7:23AM (2/07/2008)
Wow, Mort you are really out of touch with times. Not only has GM sold off 51% of their finance company (GMAC) but they have made a deal with the UAW to move the pension and health care off their books as well.
Oh, and not to mention that the current batch of models they are producing are receiving reviews that rank them just as highly as their competition.
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rar 8:59AM (2/07/2008)
Did they include in the total the number of GM hybrid busses that GM has sold? Yes Toyota has sold more hybrids, GM is just getting into the game.
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Yggdrasilly 9:25AM (2/07/2008)
Mort, it's ime to come out of your bunker: the Cold War is over.
And I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but your side lost.
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rgseidl 11:00AM (2/07/2008)
GM, like many other car makers, has up to now been wary of pushing hybrids too aggressively for two reasons:
a) Toyota got there first, which means they have the customer mindshare and a portfolio of patents. There are few prizes for coming second. GM is betting its two-mode and PHEV technologies will turn the tables on Toyota.
b) Full hybrids are seriously expensive to produce and therefore tend to carry lower profit margins than conventional products. The Prius was and perhaps still is, in the literal sense of the word, a "marketing vehicle". Its success lifted the brand's image among young buyers in the US, something that would otherwise have required risky and massively expensive advertising campaigns.
Toyota managed to keep a lid on full hybrid costs only by deciding to produce all major components, e.g. the electric motors and power semiconductors, in-house. That was only possible because the company had deep pockets, is not subject to the NYSE's quarter-by-quarter myopia and, hybrid technology has had a number of prominent advocates inside the company.
c) GM's mild hybrid approach would actually be sensible if it were a standard feature of the overwhelming majority of vehicles produced (cp. BMW EfficientDynamics). For the same manufacturing cost, you get a larger reduction in fleet average CO2 emissions. Unfortunately, fuel prices and government regulations (CAFE) are not generating nearly enough pressure on US car makers to make mild hybridization standard issue at the moment.
As an optional extra, it will never sell in high volume because the benefits accrue primarily to society rather than the individual consumer.
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dean 2:25PM (2/07/2008)
yeah, GM did hardly anything to push the mild hybrids...which are a fair deal. I think the second generation mild hybrid should be pushed much harder, make it a part of a trim level, not pushed as "green".
Fortunately, they are pushing the 2-modes much harder. And I don't agree that they should focus on just high mileage cars. Gm is trying to change the mindset of people who don't see hybrids as something they want. They are trying to market to a a large number of people who don't want a Prius.
Also, Mort, while I find you wrong on your facts....you are hilarious! I like you.
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Chris 5:47PM (2/07/2008)
Finally...
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LaughingTooHard 7:34PM (2/07/2008)
GM was underwhelmed by Hybrids for the same reasons that so many financial, consumer advice and sustainable process experts were - they didn't make sense on paper.
GM also underestimated how much people were willing to pay for the ability to use less gas.
Did these people move into smaller homes? Did these same people cut their commutes with public transport? Did they do anything else to save the environment? Did they petition lawmakers? Recycle?
No, people mostly still buy hybrids for the status, the tax credit and the fact they drive MORE and pay less.
Perfect example is the COO who has four houses and lives 2 hours from where she works. She bought a hybrid to save money. If the salesman told her it ran on a mixture of Panda blood and Whale oil that was $1 cheaper per gallon than gas, she would have bought it. She only cared about 50% reduction in her monthly fuel bill.
BTW: Mort, I'd like to hire you as a Clown for Terminally Ill Children - you are funny and uplifting. Keep up the good work buddy!
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John 10:42PM (2/12/2008)
Here is some facts. GM mild hybrid payback period is much shorter than the Prius. GM's two mode has leap frog the Toyota Prius single mode. Toyoto's quality is going down the tube. Their number of recalls has increase tremendously. GM has been winning all kind of major awards - too many to list. The Buicks, a much cheaper car, has equal the Lexus quality (JD Power). The chairmen of Toyota laugh at GM's Volt project, but today Toyota says is competing in that project. I could go on and on. To me, it's obvious GM is going to be a huge threat to Toyota and they know it. I have no doubts GM has the know how to be the technological leader. Just because Toyota comes out with the Prius and the news media makes them the technological leader means they are in fact the genuine leader. That's a laugh. Let's see who comes out with an electric car w/range extender first. Toyota, your glory days are coming to an end. Detroit is now fully awake!
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