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AFS Trinity Energy Corp had taken a stock Saturn View hybrid and created and a Volt style E-REV-40 that can cruise at 80-mph in all electric mode for over 40 miles! AFS Trinity Energy Corp is willing to license their technology to the car manufacturers. The prototype is running right NOW!

Edward Furia, the CEO of AFS Trinity Energy Corp stated in the 1/11/08 CNN interview that:

“The batteries, the ultracapacitors and the electronics pieces are all things that you can just buy off the shelf.”

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008/01/11/hunter.extreme.hybrid.cnn

Interesting bit to me is that they can use off the shelf batteries because they remove any power spikes with off the shelf ultracapacitors which control and regulate power flow in and out of the pack. Fewer power spikes at the pack level during acceleration and regen braking means less heat. Less heat means that cheaper off the shelf Li-Ion batteries can be used with greater safety, reliability and lifespan.

AFS says it only costs about $8,600.00 to convert a stock Saturn View Hybrid to a E-REV! It appears that GM is just stalling.

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Tim,

A production vehicle is a little different than a conversion. I know Trinity did a decent job, but how friggin long is that battery pack going to last? 20 charges? 30?

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Tim, will the conversion come with a 100K warranty? Will it start and run in sub zero temperatures? Will it pass EPA crash tests? These are the things GM has know before they put one in production. They also have to be able to build these vehicles profitably. I don't see what GM would gain by stalling. If they announced production starts next month they would get a great amount of publicity and probably sales as well. GM "seems" to be serious about the two mode system with plug-in capability, unless they are trying to go out of business.

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Tim, will the conversion come with a 100K warranty? Will it start and run in sub zero temperatures? Will it pass EPA crash tests? These are the things GM has know before they put one in production. They also have to be able to build these vehicles profitably. I don't see what GM would gain by stalling. If they announced production starts next month they would get a great amount of publicity and probably sales as well. GM "seems" to be serious about the two mode system with plug-in capability, unless they are trying to go out of business.

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Tim, will the conversion come with a 100K warranty? Will it start and run in sub zero temperatures? Will it pass EPA crash tests? These are the things GM has know before they put one in production. They also have to be able to build these vehicles profitably. I don't see what GM would gain by stalling. If they announced production starts next month they would get a great amount of publicity and probably sales as well. GM "seems" to be serious about the two mode system with plug-in capability, unless they are trying to go out of business.

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sorry for the multiple posts, either my computer or ABg is messing up.

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sorry about the multiple posts, not sure what happened

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Throwback. no worries about the multiple posts. You make some good points that deserve to be repeated.

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"I don't see what GM would gain by stalling. If they announced production starts next month they would get a great amount of publicity and probably sales as well."

Well, first of all, if either Volt or PHEV VUE is available for sale next month, how many people will actually buy one?

Cars that generate buzz doesn't equate to sales. Hybrids will be cheaper than these vehicles, yet they barely make up 2-3% of vehicle sales. People have been saying that they want a fuel efficient cars, but cars with the most efficient mileage are rarely among the top of the sales figures.

GM has absolutely NO incentive in rushing on such projects. Yes, I know they are already selling hybrids, but without breaking out the hybrid sales figures, we do not know if they are selling a few thousand cars and just milking the publicity angle.

I'm not trying to bash GM, but just pointing out that GM is taking the same approach as Nissan when it comes to selling hybrids; this is less about satisfying consumer demands, but rather more about branding.

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By the way, here's a quick break down of Sature Vue prices:

Base Vue: about $21,000
Vue Hybrid: about $25,000
PHEV Vue: Guestimate: $35,000

Ford Escape Hybrid is about $26k, and sold barely around 20,000 units for 2006.

At $35k (probably minimum), how many PHEV Vue will be sold? Which would GM prefer to sell? $35k Cadillac or a $35k PHEV Vue?

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I've done some calculations based on the gas prices here in Sweden and it's something like 1/5 of the cost running on pure electricity compared to f.e ethanol/gas/diesel and so forth. This is based on the 1.2 kWh/10km estimations for the Volvo C30 plugin compared to around 0.6l/10km if running on petrol.

Who wouldn't plug it in in this case ?

Don't know that the electricity prices are in the US but i'm guessing that it would be much cheaper to run on electricity even though the gas prices are close to half of the price here. Then add the environmental benefits on top of that.

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Charles S: I'd say your "guesstimate" for the PHEV Vue is way high - you added the cost of hybridization onto an already hybridized model!

Based on the estimated extra cost of the AFS Trinity plug-in, the PHEV Vue is likely to start under $30,000 - expensive, but still a resonable price for an SUV.

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The problem with the Escape Hybrid is more about supply, not demand. Ford can only sell 20,000 per year under their current battery contracts.

The demand is probably there for 30-40k if I had to take an impression of the mood. The days to turn of the new Escape Hybrid is like 12.

However, it is true that a PHEV would add even more cost. While people can tolerate a $30k Escape knowing that it is about 30% more efficient than anything else in the class. Could they tolerate a $40k Escape/Vue/Rav4 even if it were 100% more efficient than non-hybrid vehicles? At some point, you save your money because the benefits in fuel efficiency have not outweighed the cost and uncertainty.

GM will not be able to produce a PHEV next year that has a 150k warranty on the powertrain, is reliable and doesn't lose the company money hand over fist. If they do build something, it will be offered in SUCH small numbers that it can only be a marketing gimmick.

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