AutoblogGreen

But are all these new diesel engines really green? For example, even according to EPA's numbers, The 2008 E320 bluetec gets an Air polution score of 3 and Green House Gas score of 7. That does not entitle it for even a "smart way" label. I don't know what that is in comparison to California's ratings such as SULEV or PZEV.

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Joe sixpack doesn't care about emissions. They only care about saving money at the pump.

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UG,

You are right, but one would hope they care about emissions, at least a little.

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Diesels have a number of characteristics that will provide a surge in popularity in the next 10 years:

- They get higher MPG, prominently shown in the window sticker.
- They make it easier to satisfy the CAFE requirements.
- Diesel is almost as widely available as unleaded.

All they need is a little marketing and they'll take over.

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By putting biodiesel in the tank it cleans up the emissions a lot. I think B20 is the practical way to go. We have many B20 pumps around Seattle and more B99 pumps than B20. Only down-side is the NOX and it costs a little more.

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Also...although the emissions are higher than regular gasoline, less diesel fuel is used (higher mileage) thus the emissions may even out. Add biodiesel to the mix and it gets even better.

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As I've said before regarding Diesel, I'll believe the quiet and smell free when I see it. Particularly if I see f350 D sneak up on me. Until then my opinion stays unchanged.

And honestly, while I have no proof, I'm afraid places like auto blog green are over hyping "quiet smell free Diesel autos" and people are going to think they are like riding in the top of the line cadi. then they check it out and are very disappointed and chose not to buy one. Hopefully if you are correct and it becomes popular, it will drive down the cost of Diesel. Because right now what you gain in efficiency in Texas you would pay back at the pump because of the premium cost of Diesel. That is compared to regular unleaded not Premium. And hopefully the Diesel makers will back Bio-D unlike they do now.

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MarkR, if you compare diesel variants of one model of car versus the gasoline variant, you still save money with the diesel. At least in Dallas, where I live, the cost of diesel IS more than regular unleaded, but if you have a car that is more fuel efficient, you'll still save money with the diesel.

I personally cannot wait for Honda to bring its diesels over here...I'll be lined up to get one (as long as it can run on B100) and when the warranty runs out...SVO Conversion!

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There is a lot of talk about how diesels have the ability to go greater distances per gallon. In Michigan, a gallon of diesel costs 20 percent higher than a gallon of regular unleaded gas. You will have to convince may pocket book of the benefits before I will be jumping on board.

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Oh hell, I just can't step off this soap box...

Aside from the impossibly green PR campaign being flung around for 'the new diesel,' I just don't understand how anyone would see this new influx as a good thing.

1. A higher MPG is only a very temporary fix as prices will only continue to climb.
2. It's still foreign oil, over which we have zero control.
3. It still pollutes. Dino's long-decayed carcass belongs either in a museum or in the ground, not in the air or trapped in a filter.

This is a step in the wrong direction. For the B100 proponents, a real, gas-supplanting bio-diesel infrastructure is just as unlikely as ethanol, if not more so. What else needs to be said?

I'll stick with the mystery box and hope that an EV is inside.

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Sassan. The "clean diesels" that will be coming to the US for 2008 will be LEV II.

Most conventional gas burning sedans these days meet at least ULEV II, and many car manufacturers make SULEV II complaint vehicles. SULEV II is 90% cleaner when it comes to NOx than LEV II.

"Clean diesels" is really a misnomer. It's better described as "Clean enough diesels," as in clean enough to squeak by bare minimum CARB standard to be sold in all 50 states, but not exceeding it.

I have traveled to many cities overseas that have looser emissions requirements for cars. Some of these places, upwards of 50% of the cars on the street are diesels because they are cheaper to fill up, but the end result is that the cities are covered in smog. NOx, which diesel is particularly bad at, is a primary contributor to smog.

Americans don't know how good we've got it here in terms of air quality. I'm not against diesels outright, but I want to hold them to the same standards as gas burning cars, meaning demanding ULEV or SULEV from diesels, which isn't possible today.

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B100 proponents need to acknowledge this reality : putting B100 into most of the "clean diesels" that will come from VW and others this year is not supported under your warantee, and may cause serious problems... plus, your NOx emissions will be higher, so there's a serious question whether your car will pass yearly emissions testing.

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Dont get me wrong, I would really like to see diesel as a bridge to the next technology come now, but when I ask around here at work if anyone would EVER consider buying a diesel powered vehicle, the answer is almost always no because of the awful smell and the oily film that always coveres the gas pump handles and gets all over your clothes, fabric and inside your car. Ill buy a diesel, but apparently no one else will. I wonder how the auto makers are going to deal with the existing image?

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""Clean diesels" is really a misnomer. It's better described as "Clean enough diesels," as in clean enough to squeak by bare minimum CARB standard to be sold in all 50 states, but not exceeding it."

I don't care. I'm buying a diesel car anyway. Clean enough is good enough for me.

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Oil is now selling for $100/barrel and until EV (or H2) technology becomes viable any engines that obtain higher mpg can only be a good thing. Bring on the diesel engines and the series diesel hybrids NOW please.

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Clean diesels -- those that are truly as smog-clean as gasoline-powered cars -- do not achieve "higher MPG".

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To those posters that think that the T2B5 diesel vehicles are "just clean enough to squeak by", I'd be interested in your reaction to this:

"...Diesel engines equipped with the latest emission controls emit lower levels of deadly fine particles than gasoline engines, according to various trade groups in the automobile industry.

'Diesel particle filters appear terrific at eliminating virtually all diesel particulate matter emissions,' Clean Air Watch President Frank O'Donnell said Nov. 27, 2006....

...In the tests by the Association of Emissions Control by Catalyst, diesel engines with emission controls also produced about one-tenth of the carbon monoxide emitted by gasoline engines and less than half of the hydrocarbon emissions...."

link

These T2B5 diesels are certified as Bin 5/LEV II because, and only because, of NOx; they are near or below SULEV in all other regulated emissions. I'd like to know why the other emissions aren't considered as critical as NOx here.

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Sorry, just noticed that the "link" in my previous post doesn't work.

Here's the rather long URL for that link:

http://subscript.bna.com/SAMPLES/ecb.nsf/007fcca9a5d34d9a85256d050069e67d/16df6ff50dfe229c8525724a00822fba?OpenDocument

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Comparing the diesel vehicles you see in third-world nations with the new 50-state certified diesels is simply spreading FUD.

Clean diesels are indeed clean, with particulate filters and catalytic converters/urea injection systems to convert the NOx produced back to nitrogen.

Clean diesels will likely sell out when they are first introduced starting next year, since you get high-performace with at leest 25% better mileage than the same gasoline-powered vehicle, for a modest price premium (cheaper than the premium for a full gas-electric hybrid)

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