Filed under: Ethanol, Flex-Fuel
MotorWeek video: E85 conversions are impractical
In a recent episode of MotorWeek, as you can in the video above, Pat Goss lays out the reasons why flex-fuel conversion kits are "impractical." Using parts supplied by GM, Pat lists the things in a regular gas engine that just won't work with ethanol. The parts that must be changed to convert a gas car to run on ethanol include: fuel lines, fuel pumps, fuel gauges, fuel tank, fuel rail, capsule assembly, fuel injectors, the fuel injector computer, fuel identifier, exhaust valves, intake valves, valve seats and - last but not least - the cylinder heads must be replaced.
Pat warns against using conversion kits you find on the internet but I don't think he meant to say EPA approved kits are impractical. Early research hints regular cars may be able to use higher percentages of ethanol. Even the president, depending on how you interpret his recent comments about ethanol, may endorse regular cars using ethanol. The EPA however warns using ethanol in a regular car will cause your engine to stop working, damage your engine, increase emissions and set the emissions warning light off. We have written about ethanol conversion kits and gas cars using ethanol but don't gloss over the first lines of those articles that warn that there is a debate on the practicality of these options.
[Source: YouTube]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Ian Miller 5:15PM (12/30/2007)
Didn't the Doc in Back to the Future III establish that the conversion of a car to E85, or in that case E100 was impractical...
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Wildgoosechase 7:05PM (12/30/2007)
Admittedly it is more difficult on modern cars to convert them to E85. But then again why bother? If you want a modern E85 vehicle, buy it. But on older vehicles, particularly pre-smog muscle cars E85 is a perfect solution. Everything that is required to be upgraded is stuff that would be upgraded anyway to make a hot rod.
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Dad 8:05PM (12/30/2007)
"flex-fuel conversion kits are "impractical."
DUH! ;-)
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sensitive_man 8:47PM (12/30/2007)
Ian, no, it was his dog Einstein.
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Dave Justice 12:37AM (12/31/2007)
Hey Pat Goss-
You were supplied the information from GM. How big of a check did they send you??? You are PBS and rely on grant money from Corporations like GM. You offer no independent research. Next time you want to do an unbiased report, try the technology before you are bought off of the automakers. Three weeks after this show aired, GM announced that they are developing conversion kits to be installed by their dealers. Hypocrisy at its best! Ethanol does not corrode engine parts like you say they do. If I send you a check, will you dance around in a too-too like a monkey? You probably will since it is so evident that you have been bought off. I wish someone would write me a check to tell lies. GM does not like the conversion industry as it impacts sales of new cars. GM's goal is to get America to go green by buying new cars. Conversion kits will encourage Americans to keep their old cars.
I'm Dave Justice and I have converted 4 of my vehicles. Three of them are GM. I encourage Americans and the World to convert their vehicles. The conversion kits were invented over 20 years ago in Brazil. I can find no negative comments from Brazilians about converting an older vehicle on the web. If they were bad, someone in Brazil would have posted something on the web. I've been to Brazil and I know that they have internet. I find a lot of negative postings from monkeys like Pat Goss and other Americans who have never tried or even seen a conversion kit.
Go Green! Buy a conversion kit. They really work and they work really well.
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David Smith 1:01AM (12/31/2007)
I was poking around one of the conversion kit websites. I checked out www.change2E85.com. They have some podcasts of a radio talk show call Gear Heads and another called NAPA Drive Radio. The Mechanics on these two radio shows spoke very highly of the conversion kits that change2E85 offers. In fact they contradict what Pat Goss said and have done thier own testing. I have to agree with Dave Justice about Pat Goss not doing any of his own research nor testing. I'd like to see motorweek do a long term test on a conversion kit and then report their findings instead of just reporting what GM wants them to.
Here is the podcast if you want to listen: http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Videos or http:www.shockpod.com/users/change2E85/feed.xml
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Mulad 1:17PM (12/31/2007)
Heh, I imagine Doc's attempt with the whiskey was only 50% alcohol or so. And with the remaining half being mostly water rather than gasoline.. :-p
Ugh, with the hundreds of millions of cars in the U.S., including several million flex-fuel cars, you'd think reliable information on the subject of ethanol wouldn't be hard to come by.
Obviously, GM has engineered its flex-fuel vehicles with the ability to run E85 for every fillup for 200,000 miles before the engine gives out. Well, they probably engineer it for E100 to give a little headroom (E85 can vary in ethanol content).
Still, for the last 25 years or so, most cars have been engineered to handle some ethanol. My parents' 1984 Chevy Cavalier said in the manual that the car could accept fuel containing up to 15% ethanol. It makes sense that most cars can go up to 30 or 40% before that "check engine" light comes on.
Corrosion is a fact of life, and ethanol corrodes more than gasoline. Whether it means that your car's life is reduced by 1,500 miles or 150,000, I can't say. In our disposable culture, I suspect the result is somewhere in between, and is probably at a point where nobody'd really notice.
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PJD 1:31PM (12/31/2007)
It seems as if the kits are only approved for a limited number of vehicles. I'd be interested to know if any of the people who have used a conversion kit on Vehicles not approved by the EPA has done so in a state such as CA with strict emissions testing?
Also, someone who has actually seen these kits... what are the parts that are replaced?
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