Filed under: MPG, Legislation and Policy, USA
What cars can we get today with 35 mpg?
With a new energy bill on the verge of becoming law, our friends over at Winding Road got to thinking. With the law soon to require an average of 35 mpg from the new vehicle fleet, what vehicles can we buy today that actually meet that requirement? As it turns out, when checking the combined mileage figure that's posted on new car window stickers, the list comes up perilously short. So short in fact that it currently includes two cars that are available on the US market. A few other vehicles come close, but clearly everyone has a lot of work to do. Check out Evan's article at Winding Road.
[Source: Winding Road]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
GoodCheer 10:29AM (12/18/2007)
I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet you're forgetting that CAFE averages are still calculated using 1985 EPA driving cycle mileage numbers. I'm sure the list still isn't long (and is much harder to research), but I'm sure it's longer than 2.
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Ian 10:47AM (12/18/2007)
The '08 EPA numbers are not what will be used for CAFE requirements.
CAFE and the EPA number were once the same, but were unrealistic. CAFE will continue to use the old "unrealistic" numbers.
Also, this is an AVERAGE. Every car must not get 35mpg the average of all a companies cars must be 35mpg or higher.
Cheers.
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Kardax 11:04AM (12/18/2007)
An average of 35 MPG will be very hard to achieve. To offset sales of larger vehicles, they'll need to sell a lot of 40+ MPG vehicles. If the auto industry can't kill this law, we can expect hybrid drive trains to be standard across the product line of every company.
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Chris 11:16AM (12/18/2007)
I'm reading this from the UK and I can't believe what I'm seeing. Over here we have dozens of models that can average better than 35 mpg. The best of the best can do over 70 mpg (and it's not a hybrid, it's a diesel). I run a mid-size family hatchback, a Nissan Primera, with a 1.8 litre engine. It's a year 2000 model and has plenty adequate performance (and air con) and it easily averages around 40 mpg. You guys are doing something very wrong over there. I notice that your base spec Ford Focus uses a 2 litre engine. Over here that's the top premium model. The base model is 1.4 litres. I think the answer to your problem is pretty clear ;-)
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Rich 11:27AM (12/18/2007)
Chris,
You hit the nail on the head....
Over here in the US almost every car is a gas guzzler. It's my belief that the market is being manipulated. The consumer can't even choose a car with decent MPG numbers.
The US gov't makes sure that it's so painful to import a car from the EU that you'd rather have all your teeth pulled with no pain killer.
Rich
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Whopper 11:42AM (12/18/2007)
Difficult to import a car into the US from the UK? Nonsense. The US has been importing cars from accross the globe for years. The big difference is the US is 40 TIMES LARGER IN LAND MASS than the UK and Americans travel much further as a normal course. Our entire infrastructure is aimed at personal transportation. Mass transportation is not even available in much of the US for distances under 150 miles.
You want 35 mpg there are cars out there to purchase. Quit whinning and blaming the government and auto manufacturers. If the general population refused to buy SUVs the manufacturers wouldn't build them.
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Dave 12:00PM (12/18/2007)
Whopper -
What are these 150 mile + mass transit systems you're referring to - certainly not Amtrak and Greyhound? We're totally underserved by long range mass transit unless you are talking about aircraft.
There is plenty of mass transit in the under 150 mile category if you live in the Northeast, Northwest, Chicago, or in California. Even LA has a huge mass transit system.
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Karkus 12:19PM (12/18/2007)
According to the EPA calculator, a 35 MPG car is now at 31 MPG car.
So, at >31 MPG we have the
Toyota: Prius, Yaris, Corolla, Camry Hybrid
Mini: Cooper, Clubman
Honda: Civic, Civic Hybrid
Nissan: Altima Hybird
Ford Escape, Mercury Mariner, Mazda Tribute
So that's about 10-12 (depending on how you count twins)
Chris,
Sure, there are many more high MPG vehicles in the UK than USA.
But the disparity is not as big as you think it is.
1) Use the old US tests (closer to UK tests)
2) UK gallons are 20% bigger than US gallons, so subtract that from
your UK numbers.
So now we're comparing US 31+MPG with UK 42+MPG vehicles.
Still no contest (many dozens in the UK vs about a dozen here) but not as bad as first portrayed.
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OhmExcited 12:25PM (12/18/2007)
Chris, the only reason you're able to do that in Europe is by using diesel. You don't have gasoline engines that average 35 mpg. Unfortunately those diesels would not pass emission requirements in the US. It's not so much of a problem for you in a location where it rains a lot, but large scale use of diesels would be unacceptable in huge metropolitan areas of Los Angeles for example.
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Karkus 12:39PM (12/18/2007)
Actually, there are PLENTY of gasoline cars in the UK that get over 42 MPG UK gallons (i.e. 31 MPG US new test/35 MPG US old test)
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/information/how-to-use-the-data-tables.asp#petrol
There are also lots of diesels, but remember that diesels got a ~10% advantage in MPG comparisons because diesel per volume is heavier and contains more energy. So when you look at CO2 emissions, the diesels don't have as big an advantage as with MPGs.
Speaking of diesels, I should add the Jetta TDI 2.0 to the list above for the US (coming in summer 2008) for 31+MPG US cars. (MPG numbers unknown - some people are quoting 40s,50s but based on the Jettas currently sold in the UK (see link above), I don't see how they'll do better than high 30s with the new US test).
Also we should probably add the Smart to the list too.
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O 12:52PM (12/18/2007)
Whopper--
Umm no actually the point is there are very few cars that average 35mpg available in the US, right? That was the article wasn't it? Go to Europe and you will find a dizzying array of cars that are painfully more efficient than US models. And no you cannot just go to your local BMW dealer and ask them to order a Euro spec diesel of your favorite model--that includes "domestic" companies like Ford. Compare Ford's style and mpg numbers for the european fleet to the drivel the US is offered and you will cry. And while I suppose you COULD buy a car in Europe and have it shipped over I wouldn't want to see the bill when you get hammered with VAT and currency exchange, and then try to register that new diesel in CA, NY etc. I think this was Rich's frustration: for all practical purposes it is basically impossible for the American consumer to actually BUY what they want AND exercise a choice that benefits the wallet and reduces pollution.
is that market manipulation?
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Architeuthis 12:58PM (12/18/2007)
OhmExcited: the emissions issues of diesel are twofold, PM by mass, and NOx (both are artefacts of traditionally high sulfur content -- now changing -- liked by the trucking industry). A particulate filter efficiently deals with the former, the technology to deal with NOx is a bit more challenging (although it's moving faster than that for gassers in the early days of the cat).
Anyway, the air quality issues in Los Angeles are PM and ozone. Much of the PM is secondary (formed by reactions of gaseous precursors), so while filters will certainly help they will not fix the problem. Ozone comes from NOx + VOC (volatile organic compounds) + sunlight. Los Angeles is VOC-limited, or saturated in NOx. Bringing diesel NOx down to gasoline or better standards is an excellent idea but will not help one bit with ozone. In fact, it will make local ozone worse, but downwind ozone better (provided that downwind doesn't also have NOx sources). Los Angeles is not unique -- all metropolitan areas in the US and increasingly even semirural areas are VOC limited.
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Phil L. 2:15PM (12/18/2007)
I'll add my usual frustration with such lists:
Not one of the vehicles mentioned above will work for me - because I still have 3 kids in child safety seats.
The list of high MPG vehicles with 3+ LATCH safety seat positions is worse than painfully short.
Still waiting for a hybrid minivan...
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Kardax 2:31PM (12/18/2007)
Phil L.: I'm starting to think that by the time you find a suitable vehicle, your 3 kids won't need child safety seats anymore :)
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Phil L. 2:43PM (12/18/2007)
Kardax -
A pity it's taking this long...
Then I'll have bigger kids - and may discover that they don't fit very well into a 35+ mpg car's bench seat, even with three sets of belts!
Though seriously, I'm not the only person who has to haul more than 2 kids around - and I'm still amazed that this issue is largely ignored by the high-MPG/hybrid markets. They seem to presume you either want a small car or a more efficient SUV. There's precious little in between.
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Karkus 3:07PM (12/18/2007)
Phil,
We all know there isn't a car that fits your exact needs right now. Enough already.
Sure, there are other people like you, but obviously not enough for car companies to care and make something that fits your exact needs right now. Car companies are designed to MAKE MONEY. They study the market and use advertising to make people think they need to buy their car.
In a few years, at least a couple of them will be out of their seats, and you will have NO PROBLEM fitting into a standard midsize car backseat like the Prius or Civic hybrid, Camry, etc (unless their BMI is huge). Implying that standard compact/midsize cars don't fit 3 kids or even teens is just silly.
(and after the can drive, they'll want to drive by themselves anyway and probably want some sort of hot rod or SUV).
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Whopper 3:31PM (12/18/2007)
Dave,
That is what I'm saying: outside of the coasts and major metro areas mass tansportation doesn't exist. Mass trans doesn't support itself so it is subsidized by city, state or federal governments. It isn't cost effective.
In the "fly over states" where many, if not most, of us live, personal transportation is all there is. CAFE is a joke because the vehicle and driver population grow annually and consume any CAFE savings.
Phil wants a 35 mpg vehicle to hold 5 passangers comfortably. Those are two mutually exclusive goals. When a hybrid minivan comes out, for $50K, will he buy it? Is the market large enough to justify the development?
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kballs 4:01PM (12/18/2007)
Keep in mind, the new CAFE regs not only use the old 1985 EPA test cycle to calculate MPG, but AFAIK the new CAFE regs don't use city or combined MPG, they only use highway MPG (just as they have in the past). This means that A LOT more cars already meet a 35 highway MPG requirement today. The only thing bringing down the manufacturer's average is trucks and SUVs... but I wonder what their actual averages are now with current sales numbers and how hard it will be to raise it (other than cutting the amount of trucks they build).
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Rich 4:28PM (12/18/2007)
For those of you that think it's a piece of cake to import a car into the US. Just read what the US government has to say about this:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/graymarket_RI_list01092006.html
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steven 4:43PM (12/18/2007)
I think you're missing Phil's point..... The cars people want are being sold in the US. This may be one of the reasons there are so few 35MPG cars. Many/most of them don't meet a lot of people's needs. Granted there are folks that buy cars/SUVs that many posters here think people don't need, but there are a lot of folks that DO buy a car that meets their real (not imagined) needs. That's also why folks buy Prius and Civic hybrids.
@Chris: As I've tried to mention before, wait and see what happens to these UK cars and their MPG when they come over here and get weighed down and bloated up with all the U.S. safety & emission regs. They will soon get a lot less MPG. Next, how long is a car going to last if 75% of the time you are driving it with the tach bouncing off the redline trying to not get run over on the highway? I'd guess they won't get quite as good MPG driving at US HWY speeds. 90% of the cars are doing 65-80 MPH on most US HWYs listed at 55-65MPH. And we all know God and G.W. Bush are watching over those folks in Texas with their 70MPH+ speed limits.
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