Filed under: Etc., DaimlerChrysler, Mercedes Benz, SMART
Zetsche: We can't make it under 120 for 2012
Daimler's CEO Dieter Zetsche said that the proposed CO2 emission limits for 2012 (120 g/km) are "unattainable". He also stated that politicians don't realise how difficult that limit will be to reach because the cars that will be on sale in 2012 are " actually at the end of their development cycle and can't be substantially changed. In order to achieve that limit, it should have been set up before, but that's something politicians don't want to listen to".
Despite these words, he said that Daimler AG is actually committed to protect the environment and reduce carbon emissions, although he sees hydrogen as the sole real future option for pollution-free motoring. Remarkably, he also stated that with just one percent of the world's hydrogen production, one million fuel-cell vehicles could be powered per year. He also announced that the company is working on Li-Ion batteries, although he believes that "buyers don't really want electric cars" (he should read AutoblogGreen readers' comments to change his mind).
Zetsche also spoke about Daimler's expectations for the U.S. sales of the Smart (which could lead to profits at Smart for the first time in 10 years), a new CUV based on the C-Class and new more compact supercharged powertrains to reduce fuel consumption.
[Source: El Mundo Motor]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Phil L. 8:42AM (12/14/2007)
Huh?
>>>>Remarkably, he also stated that with just one percent of the world's hydrogen production, one million fuel-cell vehicles could be powered per year.
C'mon - think about it. So: He says one percent of the world's (current) hydrogen production can power a million vehicles. Let's see: The US alone has several hundred million vehicles on the road. So *ALL* of the world's current hydrogen production wouldn't even come close to powering just (the current number of) US vehicles.
Not terribly remarkable - and not terribly enlightening, either. And don't forget that most of that hydrogen comes from natural gas. Moving from crude oil to natural gas is hardly a game changer.
He's really saying that there's no hydrogen infrastructure anywhere near replacing oil - but few people will hear that message.
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Karl-Uwe Strunzen 9:12AM (12/14/2007)
I've read the original ElMundo article and to me it seems Zetsche says a number of things which are either incorrect or simply false:
(1) If Elmundo quoted him correctly he claims to speak for the car industry and not Daimler. I believe it would be more correct, no matter what the case, for Zetsche to speak only for Daimler. Especially in this case: for 2006 Peugeot-Citroen, Fiat-Alfa-Lancia and Renault had averages of 142, 144 and 147 g CO2/km. They are already very close and there are still six years to go. Again, he really should limit his comments to Daimler, with an average of 188.
(2) The fault seems to lay with the EU for coming up with the 120g CO2 idea way too late for 2012. This is quite false, as the current CO2 taxes and discussions on penalties for manufacturers who do not comply with the directive came after the manufacturers failed to comply with an agreement between the EU and the manufacturers to reduce CO2 emissions to 140 g/km by 2008. This agreement dates back to 1998 !!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACEA_agreement
(3) The vast majority of cars sold in Europe are of the Small and Compact classes, and of these many cars sold in 2007 already meet the 120g/km 2012 directive.
(4) People would bend over backwards for a VIABLE battery-driven car. Indeed I know of several people who have driven these for years, but more out of conviction than because the models were viable alternatives.
(5) Hydrogen prototypes have been churned out for how many years now? CNG and bio-fuel cars are the only cars I've actually seen on the streets though.
(6) If Daimler is committed to protecting the Environment, I'd hate to see what a manufacturer who couldn't car less looks like (maybe 250g CO2 average ?).....
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Tony Belding 9:15AM (12/14/2007)
The full quote, as mangled by Babelfish, was: "These last ones would be the ideal solution for the ideal traffic but the problem is here that the user does not want to buy them."
Ideal solution for the ideal traffic?
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kert 9:25AM (12/14/2007)
You cant make it ? Well tough luck for you, but others will. Its called competition, you know.
Buyers are happy.
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Karl-Uwe Strunzen 9:33AM (12/14/2007)
Babelfish is often quite horrific with the translations, but
"Estos últimos serían la solución ideal para el tráfico ideal pero aquí el problema es que el usuario no quiere comprarlos"
means pretty much what you quoted. "These last ones" refers to electric vehicles from the previous sentence.
If anything, perhaps the interviewee should have clarified, or the interviewer asked for clarification on "ideal traffic".
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Karl-Uwe Strunzen 9:41AM (12/14/2007)
"Electric vehicles would be the ideal solution for ideal traffic but the problem here is that the user doesn't want to buy them."
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Domenick 10:12AM (12/14/2007)
The only ideal traffic I've seen is when there isn't any. >_<
Anyway...so yeah, can't meet 120g/km? Guess you'll have to stop making big ass cars until you figure it out.
*weeps
I don't understand why car executives think people would rather drive noisy, smelly, polluting vehicles you have to pour expensive gasoline into rather than quiet, clean, plug in electric cars.
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Karl-Uwe Strunzen 10:42AM (12/14/2007)
My guess is that the interview questions were in English. Zetsche may have answered in English (given his position, and despite his age) or in German. So we possibly have a less-than-perfect translation from English to Spanish. If you then use Babelfish to go back to English again, you can expect things to be not so clear. Hence the expression "lost in translation" :)
The Germans can scream and cry as much as they like. There are other recent examples of German blackmailing and lobbying in the EU (such as Galileo, where German failures have led to billions in losses of european taxpayer money, but they still screamed and cried until they obtained assurances for their ridiculously insignificant space industry)
With the CO2 it simply isn't going to work. When you're talking about the environment (e.g. as opposed to space) the stakes are much, much higher nowadays (higher than where the lobbyists can reach)
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scatter 12:10PM (12/14/2007)
I absolutely agree K-U, especially with point (2). They can't cry about not having enough time. If they didn't forsee this happening and incorporate this into their product development it's their fault. They should sack their strategy departments.
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Kardax 12:15PM (12/14/2007)
Domenick: Auto executives get the idea that people like noisy, smelly, polluting vehicles because they have no trouble selling them in huge numbers.
Who cares what the vocal minority of greenies are saying when the mass consumers are still buying lower-efficiency vehicles?
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Phil L. 12:42PM (12/14/2007)
Auto executives are also very aware of the long string of failed EV companies. They won't make the switch until history and technology are on their side.
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nicholas 1:22PM (12/14/2007)
Daimler's forte is large 2-5 litre cars. Most European cars are in the smaller 1-2 litre class. So if Daimler's forced to cut engine capacity, and therefore physical size, in order to comply with emission regs, it loses one of its differentiating features - and won't be able to charge the same price premiums it's used to.
Too bad.
If Mr Zetsche really said that Daimler can't comply, I hope his competitors eat his lunch.
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Karl-Uwe Strunzen 3:10PM (12/14/2007)
This is a good point. Daimler (or German cars) really excel when they aren't competing against anyone. Nobody else builds the really heavy SUVs, and at the other end of the scale, the Smart Fortwo is the only car currently in its class.
Despite this Smart have dropped in sales by 33% since 2005. The cost and performance figures pf the Fortwo, when compared with larger cars like C1, 500, Aygo etc, were ridiculous. The new model does a lot better, but in fact the engine has gone from 1200cc to 800cc, making the car even less practical - if you occasionally need to go on a highway or need to carry two passengers, you're stuffed. I've seen only one competitor in showrooms, the Toyota IQ, and already just this one competitor seems to address all the Fortwo shortcomings.
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DAV 3:45PM (12/14/2007)
Deiter is an arrogant idiot.
He's not hip, as he proved in his failed chrysler ads, he destroyed a company (chrysler) and then sold his failure at a huge loss, and now we are stuck with crappier products than the old chrysler.
"No one wants electric cars"
yeah, well no one wants a Mercedes minivan the R-class, as your struggling sales and incentives have proved.
People do want electric cars, ones that have been invested into heavily, like a lap top computer.
Why don't we use little internal combustion generators to power those? The Smartcar is incredibly inefficient because its not electric.
No one will drive one 300 miles at a time, and they are for urban areas, like a labtop, they should also be electric.
People love electric, but the big-oil-automakers don't allow anyone to experience one.
Dieter, you're trying to manipulate the public and once again proved to be an ignorant leader, to not forsee the energy crisis and already make adjustments for shifting awareness of sustainability. Isn't that what you are supposed to be paying a premium for? Ingenuity? To say you can't meet a requirement that is no surprise to anyone, once again proves you have yet failed again.
You failed another company, and you blame a false sense that customers don't want you to succeed?
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stevejust 4:40PM (12/14/2007)
"buyers don't really want electric cars"
Which is why 600+ people put down deposits on the $100,000 TESLA when the transmission doesn't even work?
How many Lotuses get sold each year? 1,000?
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WIZ 5:35PM (12/14/2007)
I'd have to agree with DAV and with the other people on the comments made here.
When the BIG three complain Lutz saying GM would have to hike up $6000 for each car if they improve CO2 emissions and Daimler making these comments is a baby saying," I don't want to eat my peas".
Many European cars have already met the 120 g/km CO2 emissions. Why do we have only 2 cars that can go beyond 40mpg and Europe has 113 cars that go more than 40mpg?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17344368/
Europe has preciously increased their fuel economy because their gas costs twice that of here in the U.S. If they had mpg of the U.S. no one would be able to afford a car.
The Big Three are being pushed and forced to change because consumers are demanding better products and environments. They don't want to and if they can they want it to just replace the current system; hydrogen,biodiesel, E85 for gas and neglect the easiest infrastructure avaliable to us, the electric grid.
Hey we can have at least double digit number of cars that can go beyond 40mpg when Europe had 113!In fact you can make a hybrid with Toyota's technology with a car design that's cooler and lower coefficient drag then it'll get even MORE mileage.
It's the tranistion period where technology has moved cars from gearboxes to tranmissions to an electronic make-up. As history shows you'll have to adapt or perish as "The Machine That Changed the World" suggested with a new production model.
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Dad 8:55PM (12/14/2007)
"He also stated that politicians don't realise how difficult that limit will be to reach because the cars that will be on sale in 2012 are " actually at the end of their development cycle and can't be substantially changed."
He is absolutely right. Too bad no one is listening.
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Karl-Uwe Strunzen 9:21PM (12/14/2007)
I disagree with this. The German carmakers have not honored the agreement signed in 1998 but the French and Italians have pretty much done this already for 2006: Peugeot-Citroen, Fiat-Alfa-Lancia and Renault had averages of 142, 144 and 147 g CO2/km.
What politicians have come to realize is that the German carmakers can't be trusted and a penalty scheme is needed in order to respect the agreements. When it comes to propaganda and churning out a new green prototype every week, the Germans are always the first in line. The manufacturer emissions table however tells a very different story.
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