Filed under: Etc., EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, Hydrogen, Chrysler, Legislation and Policy, Green Daily
Iacocca: "Plug-in hybrids: that's the wave of the future, not hydrogen."
Bloomberg editors selected as the lede of a story yesterday about former Chrysler head Lee Iacocca the comment that Cerberus is doing the right thing with Chrysler, the AutoblogGreen audience might be more interested in something buried down at the bottom of the article. Iacocca made comments on PHEVs vs. hydrogen that are, for us, more interesting, no? Iacocca clearly took a stand on the future powertrain debate, saying that, "Plug-in hybrids: that's the wave of the future, not hydrogen." Unfortunately, the Bloomberg article doesn't go into any sort of detail about why Iacocca said this, but I think it's safe to say that he was persuaded by author Sherry Boschert's present last year. Iacocca also stated his belief that the U.S. needs a universal health care system because that would give the domestic carmakers and other companies a boost. Iacocca has endorsed Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson, who supports such a system.
[Source: Bloomberg / Alan Ohnsman and Peter Cook]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Tim 1:36PM (11/15/2007)
He's right about the plug, but socialized medicine would really boost corporate profits by shifting their half of the health care costs on to the taxpayer. Who cares if it takes 6 months to get an MRI like it does in Canada and we’d all love to have the government that handled Katrina make life & death decisions for each of us, right Lee?
Reply
craig 3:22PM (11/15/2007)
Both hydrogen and plug-ins are pointless as long as we still get 60% of our electricity from burning coal. So instead of burning gas to power the car, we are burning coal to make electricity to power the car. Why do greenies always forget that bit of info?
FYI: Electricity is needed to generate hydrogen.
Reply
TX CHL Instructor 6:41PM (11/15/2007)
"FYI: Electricity is needed to generate hydrogen." -- craig
Actually, Craig, it's worse than that. The current most economical way to produce H2 is by methane reformation.
Reply
Domenick 6:50PM (11/15/2007)
"Why do greenies always forget that bit of info?" It's not so much forgotten as ignored because it's not as simple as all that.
http://www.pluginamerica.com/images/EmissionsSummary.pdf
Another thing to keep in mind is that electric cars would mostly be charged during off-peak times. There already exists off peak excess capacity for huge numbers of new electric cars. Not to mention that it will take years to ramp up the numbers of ev's significantly during which time the booming renewable energy market should be able to also increase capacity.
Reply
Joseph 8:02PM (11/15/2007)
Craig,
First of all, 60% of our electricity doesn't come from coal. It's actually about 50%.
Every year, less coal is used to make electricity, and more of the cleaner resources.
Electrical powr plants are always getting cleaner, and are always using more and more alt. power. The switch to cleaner electricity is happening at a rather good pace. (Especially considering the amount of legislation needed to make a power plant.)
Second of all, solar panels for EVs is a very attractive solution. Think about it, pay ~8k (8k worth of solar panels produces about enough electricity to power your car everyday) and never pay for fuel again.
And if EVs aren't gonna help out, along with the other alt. fuels, then what will?
Reply
James 8:06PM (11/15/2007)
I appreciate the Jingoistic quality of the Katrina metaphor -- but disaster response has very little to do with managing health insurance.
I mean, if you are really an anarchist who believes the government shouldn't do anything, then come on out and say it. If you are merely a conservative, then you have to admit that the government must be relied upon for some things, and you need to provide an intelligent argument as to why health care shouldn't be one of those things.
The argument for why it should provide health insurance is that it is not profitable to provide quality medical care for poor people, and we don't want poor people to be chronically ill, because the cost to society is greater than the cost of providing preventative care in the first place.
See how easy that was? Now, you go ahead and say something smart...
Unless you are a Limbaugh conservative, in which case just pump your fist and say "Ditto! Ditto!" When Rush is playing in the background.
Reply
Alex J 12:12AM (11/16/2007)
I agree with Iacocca on both counts. Improving hybrids and making them flex-fuel (particularly for next-gen ethanol and such) makes sense. Plug-ins are particularly useful for regions served by natural gas, hydro, or nuclear power, etc. Hydrogen from biomass combined with regenerative braking and lighter composites may be a future option if the net energy yield of electrohydrogenesis pans out in practical applications. There are many "greenies", Craig, who disagree with a national focus on conventional hydrogen at this point.
A national health insurance system also makes some sense. Yes, it may benefit American companies (and to some degree employees and shareholders), but it also has the potential to be as good as or better than Medicare. Free of the costs and unhealthy practices associated with a system based on multi-billion dollar profits and a lack of accountability. The system doesn't necessarily need to be modeled after any one country, and doesn't need to preclude people getting supplemental insurance if needed. And I suspect stories of people waiting forever for care are not the norm, particularly for serious conditions. I wonder how many people actually die from wait times in Canada vs. the number dying from lack of care in the U.S.
Reply
justin 8:22AM (11/16/2007)
Soon as I can buy my wife and I each a plug in car; solar panels will be going on the garage roof. One tree will need to be sacrificed, and it will be split by hand to warm my house on cold days like these.
Ask someone who works at a hospital if people are being denied care for lack of insurance or monies. It isn't happening folks. If they socialize it, they better install an opt out program, because I want no part of it as I want no part of the failing social security problem either (should also offer an opt out). I will take my losses and survive on my savings.
Reply
Melissa 11:27AM (11/16/2007)
I am with you on the plug-in hybrids and solar panels Justin! My husband and I had considered buying a Prius and then getting after-market plug-in kit but that would void the warranty. We are looking into sloar panels now so we can be off the grid and off the coal. In CA our largest source of renewable energy is the sun, it just doesn't make sense not to take advantage of it.
Reply
mike 5:13PM (11/16/2007)
Justin, about health care you'd better ask somebody again, because absolutely if you can't pay for it you won't get it.
Reply
Rodney Schmitz 6:05PM (11/16/2007)
Even with coal as a source of energy, the production of CO2 will go down with plugins. Current vehicle emissions completely out weigh the minor amount they would add to the electric grid. and if vehicles are plugged in at night the electicity used would be using fuel that would be normally wasted when coal power companies are only maintaining their "boilers". Their would be little to no extra stress on the grid. The next step would be for power companies to step up and put wind and sun beneath their wings.
Reply
Chris M 7:12PM (11/16/2007)
Scmitz, using an electrolyzer/H2 storage/fuel cell for energy storage is a bad idea. To begin with, it is less efficient than batteries - ombined electrolyzer/fuel cell efficiency is only 30%, and then energy is needed to compress the H2 for storage. Charger and batteries are 85% efficient. Renewable energy is expensive, why waste it?
Second, H2 is a very bulky fuel, and H2 storage can take up more room than even an equivalent lead acid battery pack.
Third is cost. The electrolyzer/H2 storage/fuel cell cost is several times more than the cost of almost any type of battery of equal energy storage capability. The maintenance and replacement costs are higher, too.
Reply
Rodney Schmitz 8:39PM (11/17/2007)
Justin,
Add a Fuel cell as a Battery source to produce H2 during sun hours and reverse when needed then a plugin really is green. its just a major cost for solar panels. I wish I could aford it.
Reply
Chris M 1:10AM (11/18/2007)
Rodney Schmitz, if you can't afford the cost of solar panels, then you really can't afford the cost of a fuel cell and H2 storage tanks!
There was a rather wealthy guy that made his home energy independent with solar panels, an electrolyzer, storage tanks, fuel cell and inverter. Total cost was about $500,000 but the solar panels was only 5% of the total.
Reply
Seth 1:44PM (11/20/2007)
As I had mentioned in a related blog, FGE has a method of producing hydrogen and methanol in a gasification/plasma tech. process that is fossil fuel indpendent, using waste streams as feedstocks. We have conquered two major disfunctional paradigms simultaneously. ForeverGreen Enterprises will clean our planet AND produce enough energy carrier to help solve the country's dependence on foreign oil, and produce NO EMISSIONS! Changing the world!!
Reply