AutoblogGreen

Once again, the argument of retiring a car with lower fuel economy is somewhat misleading. Much of the carbon "footprint" of a car comes from its manufacture - running your 3 year old car for 15 years is likely to produce less total carbon than replacing it now with one that gets slightly better gas mileage over that same timeframe. Until the automakers and their entire supply chain reduce the amount of carbon dioxide produced in the making of a vehicle, replacing a vehicle for reasons of reducing carbon is simply a fallacy.

Reply

Is the Malibu really a "Mild Hybrid" (the definition of which is still not totally clear), or is it simply a weak (as in physically weak) parallel hybrid. On the web site they do imply that propulsion from the electric motor is possible, though with those crappy city MPG numbers there's clearly not a lot of power or energy there.

Reply

the malibu might be wider but i'm sure the prius has a better trunk, way better mileage and costs almost the same, wait no its cheaper! What a joke.

in terms of US dollars anyways, here in canada I think the malibu is only cheaper by a couple grand.

Reply

Actually, very little of the carbon footprint comes from manufacturing. Of course there is a debate about those figures, but numbers I've seen are typically in the 10-30% range (probably on the lower side of that range in the US since we drive more miles and keep cars longer than Europeans).

There's this big misconception that if you buy a used car, you're really wasting a bunch of energy (while really, it may be just a waste of money).

But think about this. So ideally, everyone buys a used car. Hmmm. Oh wait, that's not going to work, because cars don't last forever (and population is going up, miles traveled is going up, etc.)

OK so someone has to buy new cars eventually. If YOU buy a new car, it means someone else is more likely to buy a used one (supply/demand), and if YOU buy a used one, then someone else is more likely to buy a new one. It all sort of balances out.

So now, if you (instead of person X) buys that new car, you can choose to buy a fuel efficient one instead of person X, who would on average buy an average MPG car. So basically, environmentalists need to be the ones buying new cars, so that they can dictate what cars end up on the road.

Reply

CORRECTION to above:
There's this big misconception that if you buy a NEW car, you're really wasting a bunch of energy.

Reply

"While it is true that GM and Chevy are talking green every chance they get, one finds it hard to forget history. GM and Chevy are synonymous with the high energy lifestyle we are trying to wean ourselves from."

Can you imagine Chevy or another car company reversing that message in their ads?

Something like: "American consumers talk green every chancy they get, but it's hard to forget history. 'American' and 'consumer' are synonymous with the high consumption vehicles from which we are trying to wean ourselves." The turnabout would definitely be fair play.

Reply

Am I correct in believing that GM's "mild hybrids" do not include regenerative braking?

Reply

OK. This might tide me over until my airbag equiped electic comes out in 2010. I look at the GM website to build a "cool" Malibu hybrid, with hip leather seats, hot wheels. Hey, gas guzzlers can order this Malibu. Something my grandmother would not drive. But Noooooooo. If you want a hybrid at GM, you get dorky choices and need be in the walker set! Boooooooooriiiing!

Reply

The GM "mild hybrid" means their idle stop/start system with a combined starter motor/generator operating at 36 or 48 volts. IIRC, the Malibu Hybrid is using the Belt Alternator Starter system, which does have limited regenerative braking, and excellent engine auto-start.

As an improved starter motor, it is a big improvement - no more solenoid! As a hybrid, it is anemic - limited regen, very limited electric assist, no CVT.

Reply

Bottom line it isn't a hybrid unless it can movely solely via electricity. None of this strong/weak or my-brid (thanks a lot DCX and the ESX series)

This is a start/stop system with an earlier fuel cutoff, and with small regeneration ability.
All this for the small cost of: a spare wheel and trunk space. (why not move the battery where the mini-spare was?) and a taller axle ratio on an obsolete 4 speed automatic.

The 2.4 & 6t40 is still on the way, hopefully when that comes, this 'hybrid' gets the axe, and then the real hybrid replaces it for '09 (dual mode 2.4, sorry early adopters)
The V6 is weak, unless GM updates it to the HO spec (for top end power) they should drop it in favor of the 2.0 direct injection turbo I4 with the 6t45. Comparable power: V6 252hp@6300, I4 250hp@5900, peak torque is less, but starts earlier 222ft-lbs@1650-5900 vs 251ft-lbs@3200 (the V6 hits that at about 2200rpm, and drops under at about 5400rpm.
GM should 'mass niche market', plenty of people live at altitude or drive through it.

Reply

I think there's a place for the mild hybrid.

Just do the math: low cost, medium size mileage benefit versus the high cost Toyota system with its larger mileage benefit. I haven't run the numbers, but I suspect (given that it tends to take many years of driving to justify a full hybrid, and then battery replacement rears its expensive head and throws the whole calculation back to square one) that the mild hybrid actually does pretty well.

Reply

AMca: I might have agreed with your logic if this "mild hybrid" Malibu had cost substantially less than the Full Hybrids, but starting price is only slightly less than the starting price of a Prius or Civic Hybrid that get much higher milage.

For anyone doing a substantial amount of driving, paying an extra $2K and getting nearly double the milage would be worthwhile.

Reply

Chris M, it makes more sense to compare the Malibu to the Camry Hybrid. The Camry gets much better mileage but costs more. GM will probably keep the BAS system when they introduce their 2 mode system. Some people can't or wont pay the additional cost. Yes a Civic and Prius are about the same price but who is going to shop a Malibu against a Prius? The reason Toyota makes a Camry hybrid is precisely because some people prefer a sedan to a hatchback. As for the Civic it is a much smaller car than the Malibu and it's trunk is tiny. Price is still the biggest factor in what car people buy. On a personal note I have driven a Prius and frankly it was a very under whelming experience. The steering is numb, and the handling was not crisp enough for me. The regen braking while a great way to recoup energy means brake feel is nonexistent. Now I am no fan of hybrids in general, I think small light cars with small displacement engines are a much better solution. I realize however there are people who want/need bigger vehicles so hybrids, in all their guises are "one" solution.

Reply

Well, the author of this article fails to mention the Camry hybrid's highway mileage . . . 34. The Malibu hybrid's is exactly the same . . . 34.

So, the Malibu hybrid may not be for everyone, but if you'd like to not pay the Camry hybrid's cost-premium and do a lot more highway (or even suburban) driving than city, you could consider the Malibu. Plus if you think the Malibu looks better (particularly inside where you spend your time), you might pass on the city-savings.

If you want good city mileage, get a moped or a Prius or a diesel which gets better mileage all around. Or take public transportation, the smartest thing for city-dwellers to do.

Reply

Again, an American Automaker that can't figure out that people's perspectives on the automobile and enviroment have changed. GM makes a 'mild' hybrid because they're still stuck in the Americans won't buy it mentallity. They need to wake up.

Reply

They know Americans will buy it. They're figuring Americans will buy even more of it if it's less expensive.

Reply

I was very excited to hear the news of the Malibu hybrid but then was very disappionted to learn of its specifications. I was always a GM person but recently bought a Camry hybrid due to its technology. It is a shame that our manufacturers are so far behind in this area. I would prefer to buy an American-made product.

Reply

While this hybrid system is not as robust as some would like I would point out that it's still an improvement. Also the cost of the Hybrid Option is $1800 and this vehicle is eliable for the 2008 $1300 Tax Rebate which reduces your taxes owed (not to be confused with a normal deduction). So Basically you get a Malibu LT + Hybrid Drive for $500 (after the tax rebate) and the hybrid has a few extra options thrown in, like steering wheel radio controls. So if you like the car you shouldn't feel bad about opting for the hybrid since with the tax rebate the cost to the consumer is pretty low. btw Crude went to $110 a barrel today so even 10% more fuel economy is probably going to be worth the minimal cost. The Cheapest Camry Hybrid at the dealer near me was $28,000.

Assuming you drive 12000 miles a year and gas costs $4 a gallon, then a 3 year fuel cost for the camry would be $4360, for the Malibu $6000. While the Camry saves you $1640 on gas it costs about $5500 more. Meaning the Malibu is actually cheaper by about $3800 over the cost of 4 years.

The Tax rebate for the Camry is $2600 and the Malibu is $1300 keep in mind this only applies to the first 60,000 Hybrid Vehicles built by Toyota or Chevy so avaliability may very depending on when you buy in 2008.

CO2: 12,000 miles a year for 3 years.

Camry: 10.35 Tons

Malibu: 14.55 Tons

Replacing 10 100W bulbs in your home with flourescent bulbs saves about 1 Ton of carbon per year. So IMO buy the american car and take the $5000 you save and buy some trees for the yard and replace all the bulbs in your home ;D.

Reply

Whoops, "Meaning the Malibu is actually cheaper by about $3800 over the cost of 4 years." Should have been over 3 years.

Also Art noted I didn't mention resale value so I will add that on for the interested. The Residual Lease value for car leases is the banks estimate of what the cars value will be at the end of the lease. Which directly relates to the cars resale value. The Malibu's residual value for 3 years/36k miles is 49.5% the Camry's is 61%. Meaning a
$28000 Camry depreciates $11,000 and the Malibu would deprecriate
$12000.

Reply