Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, Aptera
Aptera series hybrid will have 1,000-mile range
In a presentation at Gadgetoff 2007, Howard Morgan, co-founder of Idealab, says the Aptera (an Idealab company) will have a range of 1,000 miles in series hybrid mode. You can watch a video of Howard's presentation below the fold. Howard also says the Aptera will be a quarter to a third the price of the Tesla but it certainly does not look like Tesla.
Recently, I wrote about comments by Tesla co-founder, Martin Eberhard, on a mystery electric car in Martin's Gadgetoff 2007 presentation. Martin later commented it was actually in response to a dig at Tesla by Idealab. Howard and Martin, I hope this small, public fight is good natured ribbing. Variety in the market place is what makes it work.
[Source: YouTube]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tony Belding 9:18AM (10/18/2007)
Quote from Mr. Eberhard: "As others have noted here, the primary reason for making a 3-wheel vehicle is because the DOT classifies such vehicles a motorcycles, exempting them from all crash testing and most safety equipment."
It must be noted that there are some other compelling reasons, from an efficiency standpoint, for going with three wheels. You can immediately reduce rolling resistance by 25%, and remove the mass of a tire, wheel and brake assembly. With one wheel propelling the vehicle, you don't need a differential either. It also becomes easier to design a "fastback" car body that tapers to the rear, which reduces aerodynamic base drag.
The main problem that I see is simply the "three-wheeled weirdmobile" stigma attached to them. The Aptera is doing nothing to dispel that.
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Domenick 11:03AM (10/18/2007)
Just as there are efficiency gains in one wheel driven, three wheeled car, there are also drawbacks. Traction, for instance. Stopping distance, for another. I'm sure the list could go on.
I don't really see the point of making comparisons since they are two very different vehicles. The Tesla roadster buyer probably isn't interested in an Aptera and the Aptera buyer probably can't afford a Tesla. ^_^
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Tony Belding 12:08PM (10/18/2007)
The front wheels take most of the load when braking, and with less mass to decelerate it ought to perform well. As for traction, well. . . You can use a fatter rear wheel and shift your battery mass more toward the rear. If you want to verify the performance potential of three-wheeled vehicles, just look at the Campagna T-Rex or its electric offspring, the Silence PT2. They're the three-wheeled equivalents of the Ariel Atom and the Wrightspeed X1, and they appear to hold their own pretty well.
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paulwesterberg 1:30PM (10/18/2007)
Aptera sounds great, but I dont think it will fly in wisconsin, front wheel drive cars are preferred for winter driving in snow. I think this design would be much more prone to problems when you have slick conditions.
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Tim 2:00PM (10/18/2007)
paulwesterberg - I don't believe it would be difficult or even prohibitively expensive to use 3 wheel motors as a factory installed option for all wheel drive traction control. Remember, the Tesla is designed for performance and the Aptera is designed for economy. The driver will definitely get noticed in either car.
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scappy 4:20PM (10/18/2007)
Keep in mind that Aptera is using 3 wheels to avoid saftey regulations, but are over engineering it strength wise. I believe it is mostly carbon fiber with a roll cage. Last I checked most race cars have the same two components and they do ok when they hit a wall at 200mph.
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Kardax 4:30PM (10/18/2007)
scrappy: Are you volunteering for that test?
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TIMMAH! 5:17PM (10/18/2007)
Won't believe it until it's available for purchase...
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Domenick 6:55PM (10/18/2007)
@Tony Belding: Point taken on braking. However, the T-Rex video makes my point about traction. It's hard to put a lot of power to the ground without wheel spin. Also, the potential for lateral sliding is higher.
@Paulwesterberg: Pleased to meet me!!!
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Chris M 7:18PM (10/18/2007)
I'm sorry, but going from 4 wheels to 3 will not "immediately reduce rolling resistance by 25%". Rolling resistance is determined by how much tread is in contact with the road, and how much the rubber flexes due to the load it carries. Going from 4 wheels to 3 wheels increases the load to each wheel by almost 33% saving only the weight of one wheel, one suspension, and differential. Handling could be adversely affected, unless wider tires are used which would adversely affect rolling resistance.
As I've said before, the design might actually be improved by going to a 4 wheel configuration. The additional stability provided by two rear wheels would allow them to move the front wheels in closer under the body, thus reducing aerodynamic drag. It would also reduce the "weird look" factor.
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W 9:48PM (10/18/2007)
Chris, that may be true on the weight issue but the overall vehicle weight is lower. i.e. you are not starting with four and trying to make three work.
Of course the whole thing could/might be improved by using 4 wheels. However, do you know the high-cost of entry into the 4 wheel vehicle market?
Finally, one persons "weird look" is someone else's idea of beauty.
W
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David Fox 10:05PM (10/18/2007)
#2 - Domenick - I can easily afford a Tesla but chose the Aptera because I think it represents leading edge green car design. I'm not convinced that six thousand batteries does a green car make...
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David Fox 10:07PM (10/18/2007)
btw - the folks at Aptera listened to the feedback and you will now find a useful we site at www.aptera.com.
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Domenick 10:35AM (10/19/2007)
@David Fox: I was just trying to be funny. You have a valid point. I am hoping Tesla has a battery recycling program to avoid teh ungreeness.
Also, thanks for the update on the www.aptera.com, that's MUCH better.
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Benjamin Franzmayr 12:39AM (10/21/2007)
Wow, a comments section that doesn't degenerate into childish name calling within 4 posts! I'll have to bookmark this site.
As for me, I like the look of the Aptera (from the front & side anyway) & would love to have one.
Benjamin
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DZombie 10:06AM (12/13/2007)
The misinformation campaign has begun.
Get it out of your minds that, "Aptera is using 3 wheels to avoid safety regulations," because that is totally untrue. Three wheels are used to reduce complexity and energy lost to a differential, better weight and, yes, less friction. And yet Aptera is very safe to drive compared to ALL motorcycles and MOST cars because of the air bags, stronger than steel composites and egg shell design. Not to mention the WOW factor when people see it on the road.
The argument made of "avoiding safety regulations" is totally fictional, as you can deduce for yourselves. I was in the kit car business since the early 80's and our cars did not have to meet the stringent regulations of mass produced cars because the small numbers. They did not require us to do crash tests either, nor to even have seat belts! And yet they were ALL 4 wheeled vehicles. Would we not have made only 3 wheeled cars to avoid regulations? No, we were exempt.
And although Aptera would likely be exempt too, they are planning on frontal crash testing. Please check your facts before making assumptions, not every company is into short cuts and putting lives at risk
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gtw 4:23AM (1/10/2008)
The unusual appearance of the Aptera seems to be the result of "form follows function" idea. The aerodynamic design result is a distinctive aesthetic, if unusual.
The Aptera will appeal less to car buyers who think of their "ride" as a social climbing symbol of power. I see the Aptera as transportation that looks great, costs next to nothing per mile, and is extremely, extremely low in emissions. Driving the Aptera will reduce auto impact on our air environment at a normal auto price.
I hope the talk of production this year will be realized so I will be able to upgrade from my Insight.
:)
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Mike 5:25PM (4/09/2008)
Lets face it, most Americans although they would probably love to have a "green" sports car like the Tesla cannot afford it. I believe from what I have seen and read the Aptera family is on track for supplying what we can afford and make some progress in sustaining our planet. I personally was attracted by its different appearance and have made my reservation. If enough of us reserve maybe the estimated cost will go down some.
All ideas and moves away from fossil fuel burning vehicles should be applauded.
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Joseph Mercado 10:54PM (7/06/2008)
I don't care what anyone says. for or against this car. The chance to get over 100 miles per gallon, I'm buying one NOW!!!
Thank you for finally making a car that gets well over 100 miles per gallon. And the big multi-million Dollar automotive industry couldn't even do this and they've been making cars for over 30 years, and some for about 100 years. If Ford Could have improved the fuel efficiency just 1 more mile per gallon, with each year that passed, in 100 years of making automobiles they would have today, made a car that could be for sale to the general public, that would actually get 100 miles per gallon. And they couldn't even do it. Instead of being angry at Ford, General Motors, and Toyota, and Chrysler and all the other Automakers for not making a car that gets at least 100 miles per gallon. I'll just be grateful and happy to buy an Aptera Hybrid. And no, I don't care if it has three wheels. I'm in an enclosed department with two doors and it's totally unique looking. All the reasons I'm buying one. And 130 miles per gallon if I don't plug it in is pretty good by any standards. And giving me about 330 miles per gallon when plugged in at night, for the first 100 miles driven on any given day, is enough to give me a great big smile. Thank you thank you thank you. And as for the Automotive industry/business that only understands how to do business as usual, You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Thant includes the sometimes referred to as "Big Three"(Automakers). I'd like to see the company that makes the Aptera become, "The Big One".
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frank u. 1:54AM (12/29/2008)
I think the "weird" look is a non-factor, and here's why. If you've grown up with "standard" automobiles, then yes, it looks weird. But there are enough of us who either don't care or who think it looks cool that it will gain a foothold in the market for the practical reasons anyway. As a result, it will no longer be something as weird as it is initially. This is why trends start slowly but gradually build into fads or evolve into a new status quo.
It will take a decade for this company to really grow its production capacity, or to sell to another forward-thinking company with greater production abilities. By that point, ten years from now, a new generation of people will be buying their first cars, and this will design will probably look no more unusual than a Corvette does today.
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