AutoblogGreen

Geeze. I could deal with CNG at .73 cents.

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Don- That's the "try it until you're addicted" price and it's subject to change once we can't live without it... like oil. Too bad it's not really renewable like solar, wind, wave etc.

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My wife and I bought 2 cng cars about 3 months ago. Here in Oklahoma its .94 a gge. I figured it would save us about 7k a year. Thats not including the tax breaks. We love it. The savings more than pays for the car itself.

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It's actually a lot easier to produce biogas than it is to produce liquid biofuels. Anaerobic digesters will take just about any vegetable matter as feedstock.

In addition to methane, the raw digester gas also contains water, CO2 an H2S. These can be eliminated by chemically washing the gas, a proven but admittedly expensive post-processing step. See e.g. this URL in German (use google to translate if you need to):

http://www.biogas-netzeinspeisung.at/technische-planung/aufbereitung/methananreicherung/monoethanolaminwaesche.html

Washed biogas can be fed directly into the existing NG distribution grid, which also helps dilute any remaining H2S. Given that e.g. Phill already offers a compressor for home use, it will be difficult for authorities to levy high fuel taxes on gas that is used for transportation, as opposed to other uses. That alone should help keep CNG prices low, though European finance ministers will eventually just slap hefty VLFs on the vehicles to make up any serious shortfall in revenue.

For now, there are really four main problems holding back CNG vehicles:

a) they are usually derived from regular gasoline models, with heavy, expensive tanks slung under the chassis or retrofitted into the trunk - reducing available cargo space. This affects curb weight and weight distribution, reducing traction on wet roads in the case of FWD layouts. For safety, the installation should always be performed at the factory or by a qualified technician.

b) for now, the gas has to be injected into the intake ports, where it displaces a lot more fresh air than liquid gasoline does. The upshot is 10% less power out of the same SI engine, unless you add an expensive super- or turbocharger. Direct gas injection technology is reportedly in the works but nothing has been made public yet.

c) except for a few places, CNG refill station density is low. To ensure you don't get stranded, a small gasoline tank is provided to extend the range beyond 200 miles. In addition to taking up room that could be used for more or larger CNG tanks, this dual-fuel capability means engineers cannot take full advantage of the high octane number of methane.

d) you need to drive ~50,000 mile solely on CNG before the purchase premium is amortized by the lower fuel cost. Except in places like Utah, the market for second-hand CNG vehicles is small, so resale value is less predictable.

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I'm all for CNG cars since natural gas is clean burning and a mostly-domestic fuel, however, the US is starting to buy natural gas in the form of LNG from Russia and the Middle East, so it could be argued that any new uses of natural gas will all come from foreign sources. Nobody worried about oil imports when they started around 1950, but we all know where most of it comes from today. If we could somehow reduce the traditional uses of natural gas (such as space heating) by moving over to a better source of heat (ie geothermal heatpump along with nuclear/coal/hydro/solar/wind generated electricity) then we wouldn't be getting re-addicted to a new foreign source of energy.

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Last time I looked at CNG, subsidies in CA essentially paid for the price premium and the cost to install a home refueling station (for those who have natural gas at home)

Don't forget eve without subsidies, you're not paying any state or federal road taxes with CNG or other alternative fuels (another reasons it's so popular to make biodiesel at home for under $1/gallon)

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I will give u the impression about natural gas. This country as always, goes in the opposite direction than the rest of the world. Everywhere people uses Natural Gas. Nowadays Oil companies are making the big bucks because no one has dared to start a Natural Gas business seriously speaking. I mean install natural Gas equipment which turn any regular car into a Natural Gas ready, and then thatsssssssss it. You enjoy ur normal car, not just one brand like Honda, you can use any car w Natural Gas. Anyone interested in howto?

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We sell clean Bi-fuel CNG Gas Cavaliers at htt://www.CNGCARS.LA

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I would like to raise 2 topics:

1. Rgseidl - your point d) means that customers like taxi drivers return that premium in 1 year or even less - quite a good deal.

2. Omaha 42000 - You are completely right. But if we treat the natural gas a a temporary solution - there is no risk to import it. The problem is that nobody inside the govt. makes conclusions from the 1973, 1980 and recent oil prices.

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I'm all for CNG but I'm told that there is no way to convert my 2008 Toyota Tacoma. There "might" be an EPA approved conversion kit available this fall... September or DECEMBER.
It seems a bit "Oh my H___" to think that it would take that long to get something approved that is SO beneficial. Do we really want to clean up the environment? Do we REALLY want less dependence on foreign oil? Are the Big Oil Companies keeping this stuff "out of reach?"
Does anyone know where or HOW to get a NEW vehicle converted to CNG?

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