Filed under: EV/Plug-in, AutoblogGreen Exclusive, ZENN
Problems at ZENN and EEStor?
Recently, I've noticed that we've had a few comments regarding the lack of announcements coming from ZENN Motors and EEStor regarding when we might see an actual product using their new energy storage technology. In fact, it was even mentioned by one person who visited a ZENN dealership that he was told that there were problems regarding the technology. It was said that if the product ever does become available, it would not have nearly the specifications that were originally quoted. So, I decided to contact ZENN regarding these rumors. Here is the reply that I got:
Dear Mr. Korzeniewski,
Thank you for your interest.
We continue to say that we are expecting to receive the technology at the end of the year. EEStor has reached all their benchmarks so far. That is about all I can say.
Again, thank you for your interest and if I can be of further assistance, do not hesitate to get in touch with me.
So, what does all of this mean? Either the aforementioned dealer was given misinformation, or ZENN isn't being completely forthcoming. Let's just keep on the lookout for any information about EEStor and ZENN for now, and hope that all is on track. I'll follow up with ZENN shortly. Stay tuned.
Related:
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Kevin 1:34PM (8/23/2007)
I did a minute amount of follow up on this. If someone cares to continue on the trail, please post your info.
I called this number:
Ohio
North Central ZENN
(ZENN)
308 Union Street
Ashland, OH 44805
419-289-1226
Map
And was directed to call a rep named "Vick". That number isn't public, as far as I know, so I won't post it here.
Please email me, or call the number above to pursue the story.
To EEStor and Zenn secrecy in the age of blogs and the web.... not a good plan.
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Patrick 2:11PM (8/23/2007)
I have emailed with both ZENN and with EESTOR a few months ago. Both responded with pretty much no useful information. Though Dick Weir from EESTOR did say "EEStor, Inc. will be in production late this year or in the first part of next year. Contact me then we will see what we can do for providing you a battery." This is for my ebike. I have emailed them recently, with no response???
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Chris 6:42PM (8/23/2007)
It's POSSIBLE the dealer was being ambiguous to try to sell a car on the lot. I mean, I don't know the details, but I've had Dodge dealers do that to me when I try to find out when the Caliber SRT-4 will come out... "We don't know, but come look at this Caliber R/T!"
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litesong 12:49PM (9/04/2007)
Kevin...Secrecy isn't a good plan for you because you want to know. But advancements in technology have often made potential buyers uneasy.
Secrecy for EEstor may be a very good thing.
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Clif 3:33PM (9/24/2007)
looking on the web today finds that http://www.eestor.com/ is up for sale.
Now if you were eestor wouldn't you want that site name and want it badly?
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Howard 3:41PM (9/24/2007)
I would never depend on the word of a car salesmen, especially when the question is regarding the development of new technology. While you might think that a person selling a particular product would know what he is selling (or be up on the latest developments), only the really good salespeople know what they are talking about. And there are darned few really good salepeople. If EESTOR says they will be out with their product at the end of the year, and that information also comes from Zenn, then I would keep my shirt on until January at the earliest.
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Uriah Heep 1:11PM (9/25/2007)
I did some research too and came out with similar results on availability of an eestor built, capacitor-powered car.
The dealership is Fairfax Motors in Fairfax, VA. I called and was transferred to a salesman whose long pause suggested he didn't have a clue. I next emailed and heard twice from a Mr. King. First reply had no text in it, second reply said he was taking orders but didn't want to discussing things on email. I declined.
I also contacted Zenn Motors. Never heard back.
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Jesse Ramey 1:37PM (10/17/2007)
I looked into this further. This is the email I received from Chris Strong of ZENN. It looks like they are backing off claims of a highway speed automobile. They are also hedging on Eestor based product delivery until 2008.
..............
Jess,
Vic forwarded me your email for comment.
There has been a lot of misinformation and assumptions around the EEStor project. To clarify, we are still on track to receive initial units from EEStor for testing late this year (Most likely December). However, as with any new technology, or platform change, we must test these units at length before preparing to launch a consumer based product offering. Testing will take several months at minimum, pushing probable launch date to the consumer into late 2008.
That said, the initial launch of the EEStor units will be in the (low speed) ZENN. This vehicle will be the proving ground for the EEStor product for range, performance, reliability and longevity. Certified as a Low Speed Vehicle (per the Federal Moter Vehicle Safety Standard – FMVSS500), today’s ZENN was never designed to operate at highway speeds and never will. As such, the only improvement EEStor storage units offer a low speed vehicle is increased range and longer lifespan (of the battery pack). You will note however, that NEV (Neighborhood Electric Vehicle) user data indicates an average operating range of less than 10 miles per day, making any gains beyond the availabe 35 mile range somewhat redundant.
Even the fact that you can recharge the EEStor units faster (assuming of course you have an avilable high current charging source) is lost on a low speed vehicle that is typically charged at end of day when there is no urgency to recharge (as the car is parked overnight).
So what does this all mean? We are all very excited about EEStor and the prospects it brings. The long term target for the EEStor product is obviously a highway capable car but that is not what we have to offer today, nor are there any definitive timelines on when this vehicle will be available.
We do however, have an excellent transportation solution in the current ZENN NEV. This vehicle is an ideal choice for consumers who have need of a vehicle for short trips to work or around town. Certainly, as a 25 mph car, it is not intended to repace a household’s sole conventional gas powered vehicle, but rather offset the usage of that primary vehicle with a greener, cleaner and more economical car. Most of our customers were attracted by the promise of Zero Emmissions, but the operational savings was the ultimate impetus to purchase. In a comparison to a 2006 Toyota Corolla, the ZENN virtually pays for itself over a 5 year period (see attached)!
I thank you for your faith by investing in ZENN, but the best way to ensure the success of ZENN and of EEStor is to represent the brand through example. This is the driving force behind our Ambassador Program (See attached). It provides consumers an opportunity to purchase a ZENN at a substantial discount (Up to $4000 off)) in exchange for goodwill promotion. ZENN owners have always been our biggest advocates.
Response has been exceptional thus far. When the allocated inventory is sold, the program will end so if you are considering a ZENN, don’t wait too long.
Thank you again for your interest in ZENN. I hope my input has been of some value to you and I look forward to hearing of your exploits as a ZENN Ambassador should you choose to join the team.
Warmest regards,
Chris
Chris Strong
Regional Sales Manager
ZENN Motor Company
Direct 310-601-6748
Toronto Office:
1-877-817-7034 Toll Free
416-535-8395 x 212 Office
416-535-4043 Fax
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Jack Willard 11:21PM (8/12/2008)
What are the real savings if charging the EESU puts a load on the present grid? Much of the grid is run with CO2 spewing fuels.
Maybe hybrids are still the best way to go.
Healthybreeze 8:59PM (11/03/2007)
Sounds like the Sales guys are selling what they have today, and we all get to wait a frustratingly long time for highway capable high density supercapacitors...from eestor.
Does anyone know how long ZENN's exclusive with eestor for 2400 pound or less vehicles goes? It's an interesting break point. Sans heavy batteries, lots of electric vehicles could squeak under that weight. But, maybe the first really mainstream eestor-powered vehicle would be a converted Prius, or somesuch.
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Bruce Hussey 3:09PM (11/28/2007)
If you look at what EESTOR actually has said, "Secured a key patent" was listed as their most important recent milestone. They have several more patents in the pipeline.
What's this mean? My guess is that EESTOR does not want to ship anything until their patents are secure..Remember, this technology is not just about cars, they may have specs for smaller Ultras for cell phones, appliances, etc.
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Chris M 7:49PM (11/28/2007)
Zenn cannot use Eestor capacitors until Eestor delivers, and they haven't delivered. So Zenn is now trying to reduce the hype they helped create, which is slowing sales of their existing NEVs, by stating that their first "hypercap" car will also be a NEV.
As for the problems at Eestor, I suspect the skeptics were right - their initial optimism was unwarranted, and they have not been able to achieve the high voltages and high capacitance they thought they could. If that is the case, what will Eestor do? Will they skip town? Will they go begging for more funding? Will they lower expectations and make a conventional utracap? Or will they admit defeat and file for bankruptcy?
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John 4:35PM (12/04/2007)
There is a lot more new discussion at:
http://tyler.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/1/3328442.html?message
It does not look very hopeful right now.
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Hopeful 4:32PM (12/22/2007)
My hopeful side of me is that EESTOR will produce their capacitor and help so many of us. My logical side says "No way" follow the events:
1. Mort Topfer, the former vice chair of Dell and one of the execs credited in helping turn it from a local phenomenon to a global PC powerhouse, has left the board of EEStor.
2. Former IBM people are running the company. After competing in the market place for forty years with IBM, they are the best at keeping people hanging on to smoke and mirrors.
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David Doggett 4:32PM (1/11/2008)
I saw this item dated 10 Jan. 2008
"Lockheed Martin has signed a deal with EEStor to try to integrate the ultracapacitor start-up's electrical energy storage units into the defense contractor's products.
Financial terms of the agreement, announced Wednesday, were not disclosed. "
Maybe Eestor isn't dead yet...
Dave
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timothy donahue 3:13PM (2/09/2008)
the problem is secrecy..
i am starting an import buying group based on honesty
called Open Source Imports.
i give you my sources, and the manufacturers prices.
i add actual shipping and handling fees.. plus a profit fee , which i disclose.. if you wish to become a dealer we can work together to share shipping. (this will help both of us if we want to order 1 or 2 cars at a time or need parts).
i am not in this for profit. i simply want to distribute electric vehicles to as many people as i can as fast as i can.
i did not invent this concept,, an Economics Nobel Prize Winner did. his theory was,, If a consumer knew what the actual cost of an item was, then more things would get sold.
here are 2 links to manufacturers:
the price on the vehicles is $4660 to $5500 FOB
china. shipping for a 40 ft container to salt lake is around $4000. fit 5 to 6 cars depending.
one site has a 3 wheeler that is not subject to the NEV 25 mph restriction. it does 68 mph
www.hyev.cn
www.toptom-vehicle.com
thanks
tim donahue
208 520 8479
mdmtim@yahoo.com
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