Filed under: Vegetable Oil, Volkswagen
TDIClub member fesses up about ruining Jetta by using VegOil
"Many people disappear when they screw up. I wish to 'man up' before this community with my story."
This is how TDIClub forum member DuluthRooster starts a post explaining how he ran a Jetta Wagon on waste vegetable oil for about 50,000 miles but then, sadly, had a terribly negative experience and ended up replacing the engine. He details the damage done to his engine by using VegOil that probably had too much water in it also probably also wasn't filtered enough and the steps that he needed to take to figure out what was wrong and how to fix it over in the forums. It's great reading if you want to know the dangers of using waste oil in your car, even if you think you know what you're doing.
I don't want to steal his thunder too much (his pictures are worth checking out, too), but here's how he ends his post:
I will conclude my tale with a comment about WVO. I thought I was doing everything right but I damaged my car. Some mistakes I know I made were I didn't increase my oil change intervals until it was too late. WVO permeates your crankcase oil and does not burn off so you can have loss of lubricity. Also water may have still been in oil evidenced by the blown off piston parts.
I think it was Drivbiwire that said that any money you save by running WVO will eventually be given back. At the time I thought he was a scrooge (well he is ). Well check this out.
Over two years I have saved about $5000 running WVO. In the last three months I have replaced a rear seal ($600), a turbo twice ($1400 VNT-15 times 2), new used engine ($2000), $1800 labor total to three different people, plus me chasing my tail for three months changing filters, fuel line, pulling injectors, etc. [...]
My next project is a biodiesel reactor. From now on it is B100 or D2 for me.
We certainly like the idea of WVO here on AutoblogGreen, but we also want to make sure that if you use it your experience is a good one. Take this as a warning, then proceed cautiously.
[Source: TDIClub]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Don 8:38PM (8/21/2007)
Hopefully this'll stop budding greenies from ruining an engine or two.
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snakesausage 9:07PM (8/21/2007)
The VW TDI engine is not appropriate for straight Vegetable oil (SVO). A more suitable candidate is an early 80’s Mercedes with the OM616 or OM617 indirect injection engine. In a TDI engine the injection pressure is a bit higher than 15,000psi, in the OM616 and OM617 Mercedes engine is about 1,500psi. This difference in pressure means a lot when you are trying to pump the higher viscosity VO. Although this guy did not have any issues with his pump I would not be surprised if it will be the next thing to go.
I have both a 2002 VW TDI wagon and a 1984 Mercedes 300TD wagon (OM617 engine) and will never run straight vegetable oil in either. I do however run B20 whenever I can make to the nearest location that sells it which is 30 miles away. :)
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Bill 7:21AM (8/22/2007)
There have always been issues with SVO, mostly due to its viscosity.
Oil contamination is very common with SVO.
Tests on diesel tractors back in the late 1970s found crankcase oil looking like "mayonnaise" because of fuel contamination (and those tractors were not using fuel injectors!)
Plan on converting SVO to biodiesel if you want to use it in your vehicle, whether it is a 2008 Jetta or 1978 Mercedes.
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Guenther 7:48AM (8/22/2007)
Uh-bill- what kind of magical mystery engines were these tractors using, that didn't have injectors?
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Tim 9:23AM (8/22/2007)
The bottom line here is that glycerine gums up the works, therefore SVO or WVO should always go through transesterification into Biodiesel before using it in an modern IC engine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transesterification
It’s simple! Put a co-op consisting of a few of your friends with diesel vehicles. Pool your money to buy a 50-gal/batch biodiesel system. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EsxALdUlng
Every Friday night and have a “Beer & Brew" party with your friends. Share the beer, brew the biodiesel, share the savings, share the fun and stop funding terrorists. If you’re really energetic, you can brew your own beer too.
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cg 11:39AM (8/22/2007)
I've run my TDI on WVO for many years/miles, BUT... I dewater, and filter to 1 micron - AND I blended with D2 to thin the VO. I was recently inside my engine and things looked good.
I am switching to Bio though, for peace of mind and independence from the D2.
--chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
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jm99 11:50AM (8/22/2007)
Guenther, just a guess, but probably the tractor engines used carburetors instead of injectors. The tractors my family have owned have always had carbs instead of injectors (granted, not top-of-the-line tractors, but still).
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Warren W. 2:02PM (8/22/2007)
When I was filtering to 5 microns, my in-car filter would clog every 300 miles. This should have been a warning sign that something was wrong.
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tedd 3:06AM (8/23/2007)
I have a 03 TDI Beetle and recently a 99 F-250, both with the Plantdrive system for SVO. I put over 25,000 miles on both vehicles with absolutely NO issues. My injectors were pulled in Jan and they looked new and didn't need any attention. My engine oil is fine and no issues in the crankcases. There are problems if you don't get enough HEAT. Some systems or homemade conversions don't get the oil HOT enough. The type of oil is critical to a successful issue free ride. A horror story when there are thousands of people having worry free driving only leads me to believe there the story is only half being told.
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Woodenbee 3:21PM (8/24/2007)
This story seems oddly out of place, it more resembles false rumor mongering to deter people from trying alternative fuels? a very common and effective practice. I thought vegoil provided lubricity in fact I read it in an article right after I read this, such that oil changes are not needed as often etc. Beware of fear mongers people!
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Dana Shields 6:24PM (10/14/2007)
I'm not exactly sure where this "vegetable oil contains glycerine" story comes from. It shows a lack of understanding of chemistry.
Transesterification isn't "filtering out glycerine". It's a chemical reaction that results in biodiesel, glycerine, and side reacted soap.
You can no more say the WVO contains glycerine than you can say it contains soap.
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john h 5:58PM (10/25/2007)
to the guy with the tractors with carbs: could they be running on petrol/gasoline or something that was called TVO, a bit like paraffin i think, which was a fuel for tractors in the olden days.
anyway, i'm not up on the chemistry but as far as i am aware it is much better to use a differently calibrated injector if you are using a different viscosity of fluid and heating the fuel first is still not quite enough. also, if the guy above was getting clogged filters after 300 miles then filtration is even more important than i thought, i.e. there is a lot more 'crap' in veg oil than diesel.
the horror stories about engine problems would have to be taken in context. nobody who runs their vehicle on 'normal' fuels is completely immune from major engine failure.
good luck to anyone who tries it anyway.
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Paul Hellmann 3:54PM (3/11/2008)
About the person who ruined his engine, I don't know if anyone noticed - But, right @ the beginning he said he was filtering the WVO to 10 microns. That is NOT acceptable. It should be 5 or better yet 1 micron.
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