AutoblogGreen

I've heard that a Subaru WRX (which is what I drive) can handle E85 with minimal problems. The ECU has a pretty flexible program, so it manages to compensate and run well. Some drivers like to put in larger fuel injectors and re-program the ECU parameters for better performance, but it's supposed to be quite drivable stock.

I'd be trying it myself if there was an E85 pump anywhere near me.

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Ethanol (E85) isn't all it's crack up to be....

It's not as powerful as gasoline. So it gives you worse gas mileage than normal gas. It's not cheaper then gas. 30 cents isn't getting it to the gas quality. It needs to be about a dollar cheaper than gas for it to be "worth" buying. It has 33% less power. Plus it's heavily subsidies...But what isn't nowadays? Until, they fix these minor problems with ethanol, tell me. I'm not going to put E85 in my flex-fuel 03' Tahoe till those are resolved.

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Not a single mention of how the thing runs? Did it lack power? Did it start poorly? Was it still smooth and driveable? These are all important questions that weren't answered. Instead we learned about the color of the plastic on the fuel sending unit!

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Before people get too excited about ethanol, what about the ethics of siphoning grains away from uses for food and toward uses for our energy habit? This was a topic considered and debated in an editorial on CarDevotion.com, and it's an important point.

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here's the link if anyone one's to read it

http://editor.cardevotion.com/

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"Many people think ethanol is bad because it's more polluting and less efficient."

Maybe that's because it **IS** more polluting and less efficient.

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Tam, in my state ethanol comes from switchgrass & willow branches. I don't think that's going to effect food crops much.

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Although I find ethanol to be attractive as a green fuel, E10 practically killed my MPG, I had to fill up twice over the week rather than once.

If it hurts my wallet on the short run and isn't giving me any advantages on the long run, there's simply no point for me in using it, even if it's 4 cents cheaper than a litre of unleaded. :\

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Tam, what about the ethics of overweight Americans shoving down 2-3 times the food they need, when we have troops dieing for oil?

Maybe it would be more ethical for big fat America to go on a diet so we can spare farmland to grow fuel and bring the troops home.

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We're eventually not going to have enough farmland to feed Earth's population, anyway. E85 just speeds up the process :)

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Isn't winter in a place like South Dakota E70?

How about blender pumps for picking the AKI (BMW has a footnote that says its gasoline engines are meant to run on 98 RON gasoline, and are adaptable down to 95 or 91RON-except for the N54 which should have at minimum 95 RON)

Ethanol has a lower volumetric energy density, but it is compensated via the different air:fuel ratio (it just happens to balance out).
Since the engine is an air pump, the air is the limiting factor and power is basically a wash (maybe actually slight edge for ethanol because it has to inject so much more mass-up to 40%, there is more evaporative cooling, so a slight gain in air density)

But most ethanol fueled vehicles are not programming to have default spark timing for premium gasoline, so there is an unrealized potential gain from ethanol. Maybe in the future the 'virtual sensor' that calculates the % ethanol, can be 'smart' enough to set the spark timing to take advantage of the higher AKI. (or the spark plugs that act as knock sensors)

E10 is usually up to ~3.3% off the mileage that straight gasoline would provide, so ~6.7 & ~10% for E20,30? Interesting that E20 is 92 AKI, and E30 is 95AKI.
So in the real world you lose ~25% mileage on E85 (so commensurately the range is also shortened, affecting your drive cycle) So it would need to be priced accordingly, say 1/4 to 1/3 off the price of gasoline.

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bolhuijo - In my experiments with higher concentrations of fuel ethanol in non-flex fuel vehicles, there was no observable effect. The engine starts and runs smoothly with no lack of power. This is of course the classic case of "your mileage may vary". It will all depend on the programming for your particular vehicle. Based on my observations and direct reports of others, every modern fuel injected vehicle should run on E30 with no impact to performance or emissions.

This video helps to disprove the FUD around ethanol usage.. much of which is traceable to the petroleum industry.

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17-19mpg in a Taurus? How the bloody heck do you drive that thing? I had to drive my '89 GMC 1/2 ton hard to drop below 20mpg with a 5.7l V8. It usually ran an even 24mpg, unloaded. Never ran it loaded enough to find out an accurate mileage for that. I find it hard to believe that a Ford Taurus of any vintage would get sub-20mpg. 22-24 is somewhat low sounding to me.

With that car, it sounds like pulling your foot off the throttle would do more to save gas than putting in magical potions. Of course, that goes for all vehicles. I personally have never managed to get a car to have as poor fuel economy as the EPA estimates. There's a reason they're called estimates. I don't skid to a stop, floor it off the line, stick to the posted speed limit, and accelerate smoothly. I also keep my vehicles tuned up. It pays off quite well.

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Why use E85 in your flex fuel vehicle?? It might not be cost effective, just as hybrid vehicles aren't exactly cost effective either.

Ethanol brings down tailpipe emissions by 30%, toxic content by 13%, and tailpipe fine particulate matter emissions by 50%. Ethanol generates more energy than is consumed during productoin. It yeilds 67% more fossil energy than is used to grow, harvest, and process the grain.

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Even IF you ignore all the food and pollution and cost issues,......REALITY CHECK..there isn't enough farmland in the US to make enough ethanol for everyone to run E85 ! (Check back through old posts here and at Greencarcongress).

It may be reasonable to get the whole country to E10 (which works for all cars), but not E85, so this is E85 test is really quite useless.

(and in case you're wondering, the same applies for Biodiesel)

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Do any of you actually live in an agricultural area? My county is 88% agriculture. I can tell you that we produce a HUGE surplus of corn. This surplus of corn is either 1. wasted, or 2. used for corn syrup. And we all know that the world has an excess of corn syrup.

You are all just listening to oil industry propaganda.

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OK, folks, I've been reading all of this with a great deal of interest. I happen to own a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan with the 3.3-liter flexfuel engine. I've run it on straight gasoline, E10, and E85. Personally, I like the E85 best as far as performance measures go.

When we travel, it's usually through the hills of southern Missouri, and on regular gas (87 octane), the van "pings" quite a bit and just doesn't seem to be as powerful as it could be. Not so with E85. The van doesn't ping, and there is a noticeable increase in power.

Now, it is true that the MPG does fall off a bit, but not nearly to the extent that I would have expected. We've lost maybe 1-2 MPG at most. But in the areas where we travel, E85 is priced about 20% less than gasoline (for example, gas is $2.559 now, E85 is $2.049), which negates the MPG decrease. I am well aware that this price differential is subsidized, but that is fine as far as I am concerned.

I am very hopeful that our scientists in this country are able to quickly and completely develop cellulosic ethanol. I'm hearing a lot of positive things about it, and I really believe that it has a bright future. Heck, if they could find a way to make it out of regular old grass clippings, well, they can count me in as a source ... I'd gladly supply what I get from mowing my half-acre ...

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"Before people get too excited about ethanol, what about the ethics of siphoning grains away from uses for food and toward uses for our energy habit? This was a topic considered and debated in an editorial on CarDevotion.com, and it's an important point."


Or, we could legalize hemp and use that to make ethanol and other bio-fuels. Too bad big companies like DuPont and other interests don't want to compete against hemp so they make sure it stays illegal to grow.

How sick is that? Rather than get behind a superior product, they worked to ban it so they could control a market.

How dastardly, how despicable, how greedy can someone be?

Even though I say these things, the real fault is at the feet of we the people. These crooks paid off our politicians to let them rip us off, which is bad enough, but our politicians actually took the money and did it, and we let them. We listen to them about the dangers of marijuana, and other silly lies, and we just accept it, though it's completely false.

We'll never have energy independence under this system, because that would mean there was an abundance of cheap energy, which means lower prices and less profits for the energy companies. Yeah, we the people would win, but that's not what the owners want, so that's not what we'll get.

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I have to agree with Kalins, it sounds like all of the "knowledge" you have is from some ridiculous business men and big oil companies talking out of their asses.

Ethics of sending grains to ethanol production instead of food? Are you kidding me? This country is no where close to running out of land for food and energy crop production. Even then, there are no ethics necessary when dealing with this topic. Farmers win by being able to produce to their max abilities and efficiently use all of their production. Consumers win by having cheaper fuel and cleaner air. The only ones who lose are the big oil companies and those whom invest in them - and judging by their pocketbooks I wouldn't exactly say they are losing either.

Do you unbiased research before running your ignorant mouths.

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