AutoblogGreen

Great! Maybe your very own Dan Roth and Alex Nunez can tell us exactly what CR "tests" for in relation to automobiles. I understand the "projected reliability" ratings are pretty subjective as they're based on prior years' model owners' feedback to the magazine. The rest of the info CR provides is either subjective or facts which can be ascertained by reading the manufacturer's documentation.

In relation to CR's reliability ratings (and they're the only "authority" I can think of who attempts to ascertain projected reliability of a vehicle), if for example a certain year of a car has a lot of problems which were promptly corrected in the following model year, the stigma of the bad year is carried on for many years, despite the problems being corrected.

The SAAB 9-3 is an example of this. It was a completely new model in 2003 and there were many problems with it, as there are in many cars in their first year, which were corrected in 2004. Yet even today in 2007 the 9-3 is considered one of the most "unreliable" cars by CR, scaring-off potential buyers, despite the fact that it has the distinction of being the safest car on the road. Who wants to buy an "unreliable" car they're constantly going to have in the shop? If CR used post-2003 model-year data only they'd find that the car isn't as "unreliable" as they suggest.

How can CR give the Honda Fit "best budget car" honors when it has absolutely no track record for reliability?

It's almost like if a car has a track record it's used against it. If it's new and Japanese, it's assumed to be reliable.

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Gosh, must be the Japan bureau of CR since there isn't a single American car on the list.

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If you had done a quick check on Wikipedia (for example) you would see that the Fit/Jazz has been sold around the world since 2001. I'd say that would qualify as a pretty long track record.

I really doubt CR has an asian bias. There's all kind of reliability surveys out there, and they all have the same conclusion. Also, hybrids frequently show up near the top of those surveys, despite all of the anti-hybrid propaganda out there.

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Karkus: the Ford Focus had been selling for years in Europe, where it was developed, before they brought it to the States in 2000. I bought one. I think it was competing with the Ford Escape trying to break the record for most recall notices (I sold the car after about eight of them) ever.

Just because it had been selling in Europe didn't mean they had worked-out all the bugs.

Also, in the case of the Fit, despite being sold elsewhere in the world for years, Consumer Reports won't use feedback from those owners to determine a predicted reliability of the car as they do cars with a track record.

As for all these alleged reliability surveys: please point me to one besides Consumer Reports.

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I'm sure if CR drove the Solstice or Sky like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_d5-K109DQ then they'd still call the Miata most fun to drive.

And the Accord, why would Honda even bother to change it for the next 10 years. It is one of the oldest family sedans out there, if not oldest since a redo and CR thinks it is tops. Pretty funny. Toyota spends all the time and money on the Camry and the 800 year old Accord is better. Why do I have a feeling that won't be the case with the F-150 or Silverado, that CR will think the tried and true are better? My brother-in-law's GMC Sierra (not diesel) is up to about 300K miles on the odometer right now. He told my sister he thinks he can get 500K miles out of it. I know, he just got the best Sierra ever made and none of them other than his could even come close to that mileage. I know CR, you're right as always.


But the Aura wouldn't even be considered because it is too new probably. Even though it is based off of the Malibu which (IIRC) does well by CR.

Anyway, the "smart" people on the coasts that think New York is going to be the financial capital of the world forever and (incorrectly feel) that their jobs are safe forever are the ones who more likely subscribe to CR and fill out the surveys. These same people think they are so worldly and that all imported products are better in general so it all makes sense to me these CR results.

Anyway, we had a couple inches of snow the other day and I went to the Home Depot to get some salt for the driveway and in the 4 mile trip I see a Honda Civic slid over to the curb front first and couldn't get out and an Accord slid into a telephone pole. Those people probably read CR all the time and think that Civics and Accords (and Camrys and Infinitis) are so great that their crappy driving can be fixed by these "extraordinary" cars. Nope, their just cars. Or as CR sees them: just testing the appliances this month.

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Actually, Gripen #1 is right: CR has no legitimate data on the Honda Fit. Their most recent survey covered the period through March 31, 2006. The Fit went on sale in the US in April. So while they did get over 100 responses on the car, these would have all come from people who didn't read or ignored the instructions. Not the sort of respondents you want to entirely base your results on.

The Fit has been available elsewhere longer, but CR's subscribers are almost entirely in the US and Canada.

Because there are so many problems with CR's approach, I've started my own reliability research. I'll have results for the Fit in May.

My main critique of CR:

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php

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I just picked up the current issue of CR.

Here's something I was surprised to find on page 12 in a sidebar titled "Fuel Economy". There's a section called "most miles per gallon". It's split into categories. In the "Midsized & large sedans" category #2 in the list (after the Toyota Camry Hybrid) is the Honda Accord Hybrid which it points-out gets 25 mpg. Well, they're apparently sloppy with their fact checking because it actually gets 31 mpg combined according to fueleconomy.gov.

#3 is the BMW 325i with 24 mpg. Huh? Isn't this supposed to be the 2007 new car issue? BMW doesn't even SELL the 325i anymore. It's been supplanted by the 23 mpg 328i. A 328i competitor, the SAAB 9-3, gets 25 mpg. So the SAAB 9-3 gets better fuel economy than the BMW 328i and is not mentioned, but there's no bias at CR? Right.

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Why are CR fuel economy figures different than fueleconomy.gov? Consumers Union does its own fuel milage testing and does not rely on the EPA numbers. The CR numbers are "real world", the EPA numbers are for "almost ideal conditions".

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1985 Gripen:
The post-2003 saabs show up near the bottom of any reliability survey.

They are junk.

I'm not a saab hater - I have owned 5 saabs. Five.

I've recently seen the light on toyota reliability - over the years a few friends have bought new toyota cars - I've watched each of those cars hit over 200,000 miles... WITHOUT A SINGLE PROBLEM. Not one. (owners of other marques claim this too, but "oh, yeah, I forgot about the alternator I replaced in 1998", etc.) They just run and run. Change the fluids, brakes and belts. That is it.

Pity those toyota cars have no soul. Also, unfortunately toyota quality seems to be slipping of late. Maybe GM will get its act together. Maybe Honda will be the new toyota in terms of reliability.

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