Filed under: Biodiesel, Ethanol, EV/Plug-in, Flex-Fuel, Hybrid, AutoblogGreen Exclusive
Editorial: Thoughts on the performance and potential of ethanol
Just in the last few days, we have shown you some different high-performance engines and vehicles designed to run on E85. We also showed you the fastest vehicle in the world that runs on E85. There has been much debate over the merits of such creations. This is not a question of whether they deserve coverage on our site - they absolutely do... we cover ethanol here. The question is this: Do these creations qualify as being environmentally friendly? I will give my opinion here.
Is ethanol better than dino-juice? I would say yes. Even in it's corn-derived stage here in the U.S., it burns off less carbon than gasoline. In my opinion, it would be better in a cellulosic-derived form, but let's work with what we have here for a minute, not what might or should be. The ethanol Americans can buy comes from here in the U.S., and is generally made by workers here too. Is that necessarily a bad thing? It helps our economy in its present form. I will not delve into how it impacts the land it is grown on, or in the price of corn. We all know that. But, I would still give it preference over gasoline imported from somewhere else for the reasons mentioned earlier. So, there is my opinion on the state of ethanol. In a nutshell, it is better than petroleum, right here and right now; it could be even better and hopefully will get there.
Now... performance comes into play. I would argue that performance cars (like the Viper) play a role in our society that should be filled somehow. I like the Tesla roadster a whole bunch. I want one really bad. I can't have one. Neither can you. There are none for sale right now. So, what is one to do if one wants to have a fast car? Buy one. That is the United States. Yes, we got ourselves into a bit of an environmental mess right about now... what with cars that pollute more and get worse mileage than in other countries. Those are what people bought in mass quantities. That, with any luck, is going to change with cars like the Tesla, and others which are still in their designers minds, soon. But, we are not there yet. So, a guy goes out and buys a performance car (say a Viper) and wants to make a statement about helping the environment in the process of enjoying his toy. He converts it to E85. Did he help the environment? Not really, no. What good did he do, then? Good question. One that I will answer with a brief true-story.
Click through to read more thoughts.
There is a Security Guard where I work, he is a young 22-year-old named Chris King. Good guy, we get along great. He loves cars, his girlfriend says that he is obsessed with them - much like many of us I imagine. He has even started his own automotive-aftermaket company called "Stage Performance", where he takes modern-day cars and modifies them for better performance. I told him that I am writing articles on two turbocharged Dodge Vipers, and he's thinking, "What does that have to do with being green." Understandable, as Vipers are the exact opposite, right? I tell him that they run on ethanol. That's too bad, how much power did they lose? I show him the dyno chart... Whoa! Over 1000 horsepower! How does it make that much power running on ethanol? Of course, I explained ethanol to him, what it is and how it works.
What was accomplished, at least once, was that the man who made the creation got another young man interested in ethanol, and wondering about the possibilities it has in today's marketplace. This is not a bad thing.
Lastly, I will go on record here and say that I think the future of transportation should be electric. I would rather see money being spent on batteries and capacitors than on hydrogen and ethanol. Here is why: We can go electric now. Most of us could get by with a vehicle that can go, say, 100 miles a day on electricity without using gas. For longer trips, perhaps a vehicle like the Volt is perfect - one that can go solely on electricity-only for a good distance, then switches its ethanol (or biodiesel, if you prefer) engine on to recharge when it is required. That can be the here and now. Perhaps the future is hydrogen. Nobody knows for sure yet. Read what Michael from the Rocky Mountain Institute has to say about hydrogen fuel cells and lightweight vehicles in my fellow blogger Dane's awesome interview. I am not writing off any new technology right now. But, let's start fixing the problem now with electricity and ethanol\biodiesel hybrids, then go to the next tech if and when we are ready.
I know that I am not the only person around here with opinions, dear readers. I hope you are willing to share yours as I have shared mine. If you want to hash out some other fuel options, click here. Please, share with the rest of the class what you think and would like to see happen. The floor is yours.
Discuss amongst yourselves... I'll give you a topic: "The performance and potential of ethanol."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Howard Lee Harkness 1:44PM (1/26/2007)
"The ethanol Americans can buy comes from here in the U.S., and is generally made by workers here too."
You might want to read the article posted just before yours to see what Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman has to say about that.
Ethanol is a lousy fuel, and corn is a lousy feedstock for ethanol. Between those two factors, and the fact that some bureaucrats seem to think that importing ethanol is necessary (and *good*), ethanol ends up being a poor third (or fourth, depending on how you classify them) in the current choices for 'renewable' fuels. BioDiesel, EV, and Diesel/PHEV all represent better alternatives than ethanol.
Ethanol's best economic use is probably as an octane booster for gasoline. And gasoline is a better fuel than ethanol by many measures, especially since most current commercial production of ethanol still uses fossil fuels (because that is more economical than using ethanol! Doh!), with an absurdly low increase in energy yield.
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Tim 2:24PM (1/26/2007)
Corn Ethanol is for drinking! It can make a fine whiskey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_whiskey. Just ask anyone in Kentucky, Tennessee or West VA. It does, however make for an inefficient fuel. “The industrial CORN cycle is not renewable and is unsustainable by a wide margin (at least 2.3-7 times) …it can never work.” http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/patzek/CRPS416-Patzek-Web.pdf
Cellosic Ethanol from waste or switch grass makes more sense, but Cellosic Butanol is even better! Ah, technical evolution….
Here are 10 good reasons why Butanol is superior:
1) Higher energy content than ethanol.
2) Not as corrosive as ethanol.
3) Uses an air/fuel ratio which is close to that of gasoline. Ethanol does not.
4) Can be shipped through existing fuel pipelines where ethanol must be transported via rail, barge or truck.
5) Can replace gasoline any percentage up to 100%. Ethanol can only be used up to 85%.
6) Gives better mileage than ethanol
7) Safer to handle than ethanol.
8) Will also assist in the conversion of vegetable oils into biodiesel.
9) Btu/Gal: 84,000-Ethanol, 105,000-Butanol, 114,000-Gasoline, 120,000-Biodiesel, 130,000-Petrodiesel.
10) The frat boys won’t drink it.
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Butanol
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Jonathan Werve 2:54PM (1/26/2007)
Setting aside the 'ethanol: good or bad?' debate, I want to heartily agree with sentiment that making high end products using new green technology is a good thing. We have to kill the idea that sustainable design is about making due with crappy stuff. It's not. It's about getting the stuff we want in ways that make our planet nice to live on. Personally, I'm aiming to plug my 1,000 lbs car into a wind turbine, and then take it to a track and drive like hell. Because fast cars are awesome.
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Bob from the ALAMN 3:16PM (1/26/2007)
The American Lung Association of the Upper Midwest agrees with Jeremy's opinion. Specifically, we support the use of E85.
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MikeW 3:42PM (1/26/2007)
How high can the concentration of Ethanol go before things start to fail on current and older cars, 15%?
So 70% gasoline, 15% butanol, and 15% ethanol, perhaps.
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Jimmy 4:35PM (1/26/2007)
I very much agree with Jeremy's editorial. We need to take actions today with fuels that work today.
#1 "Ethanol is a lousy fuel"
Ethanol is an ideal fuel. It naturally burns clean and is considered non-toxic and is not a pollutant. For example, if you spill or leak ethanol it is far less hazardous than other fuels. Ethanol is also a simple pure chemical. Unlike biodiesel, where fuel quality can vary by feedstock, ethanol is the same no matter what the source (biodiesel remains a fantastic biofuel, you just have to check your suppliers).
#5 "How high can the concentration of Ethanol go before things start to fail on current and older cars, 15%?"
With electronic fuel injection (EFI) a blend of 30% ethanol and 70% unleaded works fine. No engine issues, no CEL, no emission problems and so far no fuel system problems. I have personally tested this on a number of vehicles. Others do this blend as well, esp in the midwest USA.
With electronic control modifications, one can run E85 in most modern EFI cars. One modification vendor has a vehicles running on E98. The only issues with higher ethanol blends are cold weather starting.
Carburated engines are more difficult as are pre-1988 autos.
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cherub 9:11AM (1/27/2007)
If we could get an electric that would go 100 miles on a charge i would be all for it I drive 140 kilometers a day and some of that is in very heavey trafic so the 100 Miles might sometimes leave me high and dry. The Volt would be a perfect car for me. !IF! they can depelop the batteries for it. ofther than that i'm waiting to see what the next year brings.
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Robert Goldschmidt 1:56PM (1/27/2007)
Reducing our dependence on imported oil is critical -- otherwise we will soon find ourselves in a situation where both the US and China need the same oil supply to keep their economies going. What then?
Ethanol, like hydrogen is a detour placed in our way to a real solution by agra, oil and auto interests. Plug-in hybrids PHEV's and pure battery operated cars (EV's)are the only way to make significant inroads into our use of oil. Only they have hope of averting a confrontation with China over oil.
If we go down this path, then parallel research will be done to reduce CO2 emissions through the use of renewable energy. Thin film based silicon-based solar appears to be the solution. An area about half the size of AZ would fulfill the total energy needs of the US. Once cost-effective solar is available, we will see large solar farms springing up near Phoenix, Las Vegas, LA etc.
To those who believe that there isn't enough Lithium to supply demand, I say that we should convert the ample supply of Lithium Silicates over to both Silicon for solar cells and Lithium for batteries.
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John Rowell 9:30PM (1/27/2007)
I doubt the claims that ethanol is unsustainable. The same thing has been said about solar panels - and been proven false. Now if ethanol farmers choose to power their machinery with dino-juice instead of their own ethanol that's a bit of a problem.
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MikeW 8:42PM (1/28/2007)
30% ethanol would corrode certain elastomers in the fuel system, potentially causing a catastrophic release. The OBD long term fuel trim numbers would probably go out of whack with the stock sized fuel injectors.
And who's office in government would take the repair bills for mandating such a high concentration of ethanol?
It doesn't matter how 'clean' ethanol burns inside the engine, because of EGR (internally via variable intake & exhaust valve timing) or (externally via post catalytic tube-i.e.Honda R18A1). It matters what comes out of the car. Haven't seen a new car lately without a catalytic converter.
The US will totally miss out on BMW's N53 engine series because the sulfur content is too high here. More performance, less consumption.
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ksmith 10:43AM (1/29/2007)
You're referencing Patzek? Of course you are, b/c he's one of the few that says ethanol isn't renewable, and your anti-ethanol comments would be worth s**t unless you had some sort of faux 'calculations' to support your misinformed point of view.
Do yourself a favor and do some more reading. May I suggest the following.
http://eerc.ra.utk.edu/etcfc/docs/pr/MichaelWangResponse~7-19-05.doc
http://bioconversion.blogspot.com/2005/10/isaf-2005-greenhouse-gas-emission.html
Or a couple of my personal favorites
http://venturebeat.com/2006/10/11/the-oil-debate-round-ii-khosla-vs-patzek/
and
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.10/ethanol.html?pg=1&topic=ethanol&topic_set=
Does Khosla have a vested interest in ethanol, of course he does. But he's a very wise a shrewd man who literally putting his money where his mouth is.
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Tom 6:43AM (1/30/2007)
The price of Corn is up 80% since early last year. Due to most food manufacturers having long term contracts, we have not yet felt the pinch. However, very shortly, we will start to see higher prices for cereals, anything containing corn syrup, meats that have been corn fed, etc.. This speaks nothing to the fact that right now, every farmer in the US is merely looking to cash in on the ethanol craze and corn will be planted this spring on every available acre. Wheat, soybeans and other necessary crops will go by the wayside for the almighty dollar.
I hope you greennies are rich, when your'e done destroying our economy, you'll have to be a millionaire in order to eat a bowl of corn flakes.
I know your intentions are good, but you people must understand that we simply do not have even a fraction of the acreage necessary to grow enough of anything that would replace petroleum. Battery or Hydrogen will be the way to go.
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Tim 8:31AM (1/30/2007)
Robert Goldschmidt, #8- You get the gold star!
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Howard Lee Harkness 10:48AM (2/13/2007)
"Does Khosla have a vested interest in ethanol, of course he does. But he's a very wise a shrewd man who literally putting his money where his mouth is." -- ksmith
Political Correctness make lousy investment strategy. The underlying economics of ethanol will be the undoing of many Politically Correct investors.
"The price of Corn is up 80% since early last year." -- Tom
The Market has a way of dealing with that. By 2009, there will be a huge glut of corn, because ethanol production will be way down, and corn production will be way up, leaving both corn farmers and ethanol producers crying to the government for more handouts, or more government coercion to force consumers to buy it. Ethanol makes a reasonably good octane booster for the vastly superior gasoline, but as a fuel, it is problematic. At least as problematic as biodiesel, without the advantage of a 4-to-1 gain in energy.
"Battery or Hydrogen will be the way to go." -- Tim
Battery, maybe. We are a lot closer right now to being able to support 50 million EVs on the grid than we will ever be to supporting as many as 50 thousand hydrogen cars. Lithium is a lot more plentiful than platinum (or any of the less-efficient catalyst substitutes for fuel cells), and hydrogen itself is a far cry from being 'green' in any meaningful sense.
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