Honda FCX concept fuel cell car in depth, Pt. 4 - Driving at Laguna Seca
Filed under: Hydrogen, Honda, AutoblogGreen Exclusive
(Editor's Note: don't miss Parts One ,Two and Three of this series)
Starting in mid-2008, retail customers in select regions of the United States will be able to go to a Honda dealer and sign a lease for a new FCX. Assuming all goes according to plan, the car will be very much like the one pictured on this page and customers will likely be very pleased by the experience. Since the cost of manufacturing this car will still be well north of what consumers will be able to afford, the cars will initially only be available to lease at a heavily subsidized price. The current FCX goes for $500 a month for a two-year lease, but a price has not yet been set for the new car.
After an introduction to the Laguna Seca race track from Skip Barber racing school instructor Randy Buck, the attendees lined up for a chance to drive the cars. Unfortunately, but understandably (given the value of the cars), the course diverted away the infamous "Corkscrew" onto some of the access roads around the track. In addition to the two new FCX concepts, Honda brought along two 2005 FCX models, and a 2007 Civic GX for comparison. The course included the front straight, an assortment of curves, some typical winding roads and an acceleration and braking area in the paddock. Both the current and new FCX models weigh in at about 3700 lbs, so weight wasn't a factor in the performance.
(Continued after the jump)
I hopped into the 2005 car first to get a baseline impression and get used to the track. Compared to the Focus FCV I drove recently, the FCX felt like it had similar performance, although the car itself felt somewhat more substantial. This impression might be due to the more upright SUV-like stance compared to the Focus. Cornering was fairly flat and handling felt competent, if not exciting. The energy gauge indicates the charge state of the ultra-capacitor and it doesn't take long to deplete it. The Focus gave no indication of how much energy you were using and was generally much more like a stock Focus. Even the 2005 FCX felt more advanced, from the instruments to the navigation system. The startup was also faster at about 6-8 seconds compared to the 15 second startup of the Focus
Skip Barber instructor Randy Buck explains the track layout.
The 2005 FCX.
Next up was the 2008 concept and as you would expect from the appearance, it's a completely different animal. The startup time is even faster at about 4-5 seconds and acceleration and braking felt much stronger than the current FCX. We entered the track from the paddock just before turn 11 and headed onto the front straight. Formal timed acceleration runs were out of the question, but in each car I came out of turn 11 at 20 mph and accelerated up the front straight to crest of the hill before braking for the Andretti hairpin. The 2005 FCX made it to 62 mph, while the new car hit 75 mph at the same point, a pretty big improvement. The continuous flow of torque from the electric motor ensured that acceleration is not a problem.
Cresting the hill on the front straight.
Through the next series of corners, their was almost no noticeable body roll and the steering felt very responsive. Through some tight low-speed turns before going onto the access road the steering effort did feel rather heavy, but since the car has electric steering assist, that's easily tuned out. Visibility to the front and sides was outstanding, although rear visibility was compromised by the tall trunk and sloping back-light. Overall, the FCX concept felt tight and responsive, reacting smoothly to driver inputs without any surprises. The high/low speed steering effort gave it a slightly heavy feel at first, but as speeds picked up it felt like a very competent sports sedan. Since we were only driving on a race track in a warm weather climate it definitely wouldn't be appropriate to comment on the ride and impact absorption. Once Honda drops one of these off in my Michigan garage I'll update that part of the review.
Through the Andretti Hairpin.
The FCX concept is no M5, but given the nature of the power-train, the high level of fit and finish and the stylish interior and exterior, this is a car that could easily slot in as premium model above the Acura RL. As hydrogen availability continues to increase steadily in the coming years, cars like this - along with more mainstream fuel cell models along the lines of the Accord, Civic and Fit - will definitely prove the viability of the idea. Honda already has a fueling station at their facility in Torrance, California that generates hydrogen on-site via solar power. The current FCX became the first fully DOT and EPA certified hydrogen powered car on the market in 2003 and the new car definitely picks up the ball and runs with it. Regardless of what the hydrogen naysayers may think, this is no mere public relations exercise. Honda Motor Company truly believes in hydrogen, and is putting a huge engineering effort into making it a reality sooner rather than later.
Related:
Starting in mid-2008, retail customers in select regions of the United States will be able to go to a Honda dealer and sign a lease for a new FCX. Assuming all goes according to plan, the car will be very much like the one pictured on this page and customers will likely be very pleased by the experience. Since the cost of manufacturing this car will still be well north of what consumers will be able to afford, the cars will initially only be available to lease at a heavily subsidized price. The current FCX goes for $500 a month for a two-year lease, but a price has not yet been set for the new car.
After an introduction to the Laguna Seca race track from Skip Barber racing school instructor Randy Buck, the attendees lined up for a chance to drive the cars. Unfortunately, but understandably (given the value of the cars), the course diverted away the infamous "Corkscrew" onto some of the access roads around the track. In addition to the two new FCX concepts, Honda brought along two 2005 FCX models, and a 2007 Civic GX for comparison. The course included the front straight, an assortment of curves, some typical winding roads and an acceleration and braking area in the paddock. Both the current and new FCX models weigh in at about 3700 lbs, so weight wasn't a factor in the performance.
(Continued after the jump)
I hopped into the 2005 car first to get a baseline impression and get used to the track. Compared to the Focus FCV I drove recently, the FCX felt like it had similar performance, although the car itself felt somewhat more substantial. This impression might be due to the more upright SUV-like stance compared to the Focus. Cornering was fairly flat and handling felt competent, if not exciting. The energy gauge indicates the charge state of the ultra-capacitor and it doesn't take long to deplete it. The Focus gave no indication of how much energy you were using and was generally much more like a stock Focus. Even the 2005 FCX felt more advanced, from the instruments to the navigation system. The startup was also faster at about 6-8 seconds compared to the 15 second startup of the Focus
Skip Barber instructor Randy Buck explains the track layout.
The 2005 FCX.
Next up was the 2008 concept and as you would expect from the appearance, it's a completely different animal. The startup time is even faster at about 4-5 seconds and acceleration and braking felt much stronger than the current FCX. We entered the track from the paddock just before turn 11 and headed onto the front straight. Formal timed acceleration runs were out of the question, but in each car I came out of turn 11 at 20 mph and accelerated up the front straight to crest of the hill before braking for the Andretti hairpin. The 2005 FCX made it to 62 mph, while the new car hit 75 mph at the same point, a pretty big improvement. The continuous flow of torque from the electric motor ensured that acceleration is not a problem.
Cresting the hill on the front straight.
Through the next series of corners, their was almost no noticeable body roll and the steering felt very responsive. Through some tight low-speed turns before going onto the access road the steering effort did feel rather heavy, but since the car has electric steering assist, that's easily tuned out. Visibility to the front and sides was outstanding, although rear visibility was compromised by the tall trunk and sloping back-light. Overall, the FCX concept felt tight and responsive, reacting smoothly to driver inputs without any surprises. The high/low speed steering effort gave it a slightly heavy feel at first, but as speeds picked up it felt like a very competent sports sedan. Since we were only driving on a race track in a warm weather climate it definitely wouldn't be appropriate to comment on the ride and impact absorption. Once Honda drops one of these off in my Michigan garage I'll update that part of the review.
Through the Andretti Hairpin.
The FCX concept is no M5, but given the nature of the power-train, the high level of fit and finish and the stylish interior and exterior, this is a car that could easily slot in as premium model above the Acura RL. As hydrogen availability continues to increase steadily in the coming years, cars like this - along with more mainstream fuel cell models along the lines of the Accord, Civic and Fit - will definitely prove the viability of the idea. Honda already has a fueling station at their facility in Torrance, California that generates hydrogen on-site via solar power. The current FCX became the first fully DOT and EPA certified hydrogen powered car on the market in 2003 and the new car definitely picks up the ball and runs with it. Regardless of what the hydrogen naysayers may think, this is no mere public relations exercise. Honda Motor Company truly believes in hydrogen, and is putting a huge engineering effort into making it a reality sooner rather than later.
Related:
- Honda's website revamped to feature green car content
- EDTA Conference: Q&A with Honda VP Edward Cohen
No brainer of the day! GM to bring Chevy Beat to US market
2009 BMW 7-series leaks, possible hybrid coming in a year
Honda unveils Japanese FCX Clarity - now with more heated seats!
GM hybrid finally starting to get a little traction, 1,149 in June
Shai Agassi pitches $100 billion plan
At Witz' End - Gas Prices - What To Do, What To Do?
Sensible AAA recomments not trying "dangerous fuel-saving techniques"
Is the Volt nothing more than bailout bait?
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
12-28-2006 @ 9:27AM
JL said...
is honda going to add this to their Generator line? I would think it would help those that don't have gas in thier homes and need heat for the winter.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 9:54AM
Richard R said...
Honda has been working on this for a long time. Give them some credit here. The secret to their success is the solar hydrogen generation refueling station,
NOT the vehicle itself. That refueling station could be in our own garages at home in the future. Imagine your home and your car powered by fuel cells and the hydrogen produed in small amounts for your home and your vehicle. Improbable? I believe, The refuleling station IS the key here.
Check out the "other reason" here. http://www.solarelectrode.com/page04.html
The First article is a statement from Sheikh Yamani (Oil Minister of Saudi Arabia 1962-86) written in 2000.
The second article shows the Honda Hydrogen Fuel Station.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 10:11AM
matt said...
watch "who killed the electric car" and you'll see just a bit more of what this is about. electric cars i am convinced are the answer. but unfortunately bush and co. don't want the oil brethren to go down and they are covering them at the expense of the planet and the good of the country. albeit a complicated issue, hydrogen and enthanol are simply not alternatives and are expensive to induce the manufacturers and consumers to buy into. electric cars are the answer. imagine GM or Ford taking the ball and running with it vs. the japs doing it for them? what has happened to american ingenuity? the oil companies! that's what!
it's gotten simply stupid and ridiculous. where has common sense gone? the whole thing makes me sick.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 10:30AM
Steve Engle said...
Here's another alternative fuel technology that shows promise and uses two readily available compounds: alcohol and acetylene. For more information, go to http://www.afuelsllc.com. And no, I'm not affiliated with the company, so I have nothing to gain by posting this.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 11:15AM
Esko said...
This debate is great as long as everybody dears to be open and try to understand what the other parties are saying.
Polarization slows down the progress.
There was a wise man already in 1126 that realized that:
“We frequently know more, not because we have moved ahead by our own natural ability, but because we are supported by the mental strength of others, and possess riches that we have inherited from our forefathers. Bernard of Chartres used to compare us to puny dwarfs perched on the “shoulders of giants” He pointed out that we see more and farther than our predecessors, not because we have keener vision or greater height, but because we are lifted up and borne aloft on their gigantic stature.”
Meaning that if we are brave enough to climb up on the shoulders of the giants of the opposite opinions we might see even farther and longer than we otherwise could.
Keep up the debate, look at the whole cycle, listen and learn.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 11:34AM
Alan Kabakoff said...
Hydrogen powered cars New? Hardly.
In the early 1970 I saw an AMC Gremlin converted to run on Hydrogen. The modifications? Basically 2 . a new intake system and replacement of the fuel system with a hydrogen system. The cost? Less than $1,000 (1970's dollars).
We could alter all of the vehicles on the road today to run on hydrogen at modest cost if undertaken on a massive level. There is an ocean of hydrogen covering the planet. No pollution and all of the water is replenisn=hed as the hydrogen is consumed - a perfect system.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 11:44AM
Rich said...
I can't believe how you have all missed the obvious problem with this car. Have you ever tried to wash the inside of a vastly sloping windshield? You have to be a contortionist.
The major flaw with all these concepts is they will never save "us" money. Any product used will be "taxed" in some way. Ethanol is a joke. You take farm land out of production for food. Hence the cost of food goes up. Anyone notice the price of corn last summer? Farm land is being converted to housing at an astonishing rate now. Water being polluted with heavy metals and chemicals from the run off. Dirt doesn't remain productive forever as top soil is lost.
The only way I see is to reduce demand. (of course they will rase the price even more then). But if we went back to the concept that was touted in the 1960s of zero population growth and heaven help us maybe even lower the population, look at how global warming and pollution would be reduced. We wouldn't run out of land, water, food, natural resources and nature herself. I wish I knew the answer...even going back to horses would cause so much greenhouse gases from their flatulence that that wont work ether.
The way we are going we wont be able to drive anyway because the roads will be so jam packed with cars capable of going 100+ mph but only going 2 mph.
Someone coming up with cheap batteries and solar power seems to be the only way.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 11:55AM
Alice said...
Here's an idea. Why not figure out a way to burn our garbage to run cars? The catalytic converter that is on all cars now will reduce the pollution factor!
As far as the availability of hydrogen, I do not pretend to know a lot about it, but I do know that hydrogen is easily produced in water. Could we potentially use polluted water that isn't fit for anything else anymore to create hydrogen for cars?
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 11:58AM
Bigger Picture said...
Whether the cars we drive are powered by bio-deisel, hydrogen, or any number of hybrid variants is really not the issue when it comes to energy conservation. Look at the bigger picture: the fleets of trucks and delivery vehicles we rely on for our modern conveniences and contemporary living styles are worse polluters and energy hogs than ever you or I can ever be. But, do you hear FedEx going green? Or, how about UPS? Or the sanitation departments, the fire departments, and police departments? What about that big rig carting Starbucks coffee to Cincinatti - it's only getting 6 miles to the gallon!
Sure, we're willing to spend a little more money to get a car that is more efficient. Are we willing to spend more money on food, clothing, and all of our supplies to make it possible for the trucking and delivery businesses to go green? How much are you willing to pay for those fresh strawberries? Must that package be there tomorrow morning?
I'm taking about the fact that so much more is required from each and every one of us than just buying a Prius or some other shiny, new toy. We waste more energy blogging than driving! Turn the electricity off - it's allowed. Go for a walk or ride a bike. Most of all, stop trying to have it all - no one can! We are all spoiled babies and we are all whiners. How about we stop bashing Honda, Toyota, or any other corporation. The power to do something about the world around us has always been ours. The great PR snow job has been to convince us all that someone else is responsible, so we don't have to be. Sorry, that's not how it works.
You want to save the planet? Look at how you live and don't wait for Honda to do something about it.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 12:05PM
Richard said...
I live in a rural area, about 20 miles from a city. I truly would purchase a hydrogen-powered vehicle if the cost was competetive with gasoline-powered ones, but will there be a fuel facility here or do I have to drive to a Honda dealership?
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 12:09PM
Rich said...
I kinda have to agree with Bigger. Talk is cheap and waiting to lease a car for $500 a month isn't going to solve anything. A smog device for a semi truck might help a bit tho
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 12:19PM
sid said...
I have so much enjoyed reading every single - positve and negative comments on this topic. This is so much entertaining, educational and perhaps a source to develop "something" yet not conceived off. Thank you all and keep going please!
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 12:53PM
Tim said...
Ignorant people think Hydrogen is a “green” technology. Only a few understand that “The Hydrogen Economy” is a SCAM! http://www.oilcrash.com/articles/h_scam.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy A terrorist’s dream is to have a giant tanker of Hydrogen parked next to a big fat target. Spilled bio-diesel (or electricity for that matter) is less toxic to the environment than salt or sugar.
HYDROGEN IS NOT GREEN!!! According to this article on ozone-depletion.com, “Hydrogen may be considered to be one of the MOST DESTRUCTIVE GASSES to escape into the atmosphere. It will destroy ozone in an irreversible process, reduce oxygen levels and produce water vapor in the stratosphere.” http://www.ozone-depletion.com/. Hydrogen is a very small molecule, which means that it escapes easily. HUMM… Millions of tanks of this stuff leaking their cargo directly into the atmosphere. You can’t clean that up like an oil spill. We thought fossil fuels were bad.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 1:14PM
tom said...
I love reading what the nay sayers have to offer, which is nothing. I applaude Honda for taking the technology to the next level and offering the vehicle for lease as early as possible to get the technology to critical mass. The effort it will take to get the infrastructure built to make this concept possible for the masses, which will eventually lower costs for all, is unquestionably huge. Given time and incentive we will get there. Once again our manufacturers of vehicles for the masses have missed the boat and are so far behind the eightball that it's a joke. But wait is that a press release I see from GM saying they will have a concept Hydrogen powered car in 2012? Maybe I'll wait for them because the quality and performance will surely be better. I used to be a built in America fan but have lost my drive to support gas gussling, poor quality, who cares about the environment, keep the stock holders happy at any cost business model. Go Honda!! Get me green and away from oil, FAST!!!
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 2:01PM
MARTIN said...
ITS TO BAD THAT THEY WENT THIS WAY WITH IT, MABE USING A Hydrogen BURNING V8 WOULD HAVE BEEN FASTER AND MORE LIKELEY TO FLY. THEN YOU WOULD LOSE THE "FIGHING ABOUT BATTERY LIFE AND REPLACEMENT"
I SURE WISH SOMEONE WOULD GET SOME THING OUT AND RUNNING
IS ANYONE WORKING ON A HYDROGEN MOTER EVEN A INLINE 4?
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 2:59PM
LAWRENCE A DAMBA said...
IT SEEMS TO ME EVERYONE IS IN THE SAME BOX, LOOKING FOR ONE TECHNOLOGY TO CHEAPLY SUPPLY OUR ENERGY NEEDS AND YET UNIVERSAL ENOUGH TO SATISFY ALL OUR NEEDS. IS IT TOO SIMPLISTIC TO UTILIZE MANPOWER TO SUPPLY A SIMPLE, LIGHT, INEXPENSIVE, HIGHLY EFFICIENT, ONE OR TWO SEAT, VEHICLE WITH VERY SIMPLE EXISTING TRCHNOLOGY,WHICH COULD POSSIBLY SATISFY A GOOD SHARE OF OUR COMMUTING WHILE OFFERING A MUCH NEEDED OPPORTUNITY FOR AN EVERY INCREASINGLY FAT POPULATION A HEALTHIER CHEAPER CLEANER LESS DEPENDANT OPTION? SORRY FOR THE RUN-ON SENTENCE, BUT WHY NOT? WOULD YOU BUY ONE?
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 3:01PM
William O'Connor said...
Would assume that the initial lease buyers would be municipalities and not the general public, as the lease cost would be prohibitive for most commuters. Municipalities have the ability to pool fleet costs with other municipalities and have funding sources through their various states and through the federal government, sources to which the individual consumer lacks access. Once the production version is on the market, municipalities should prove first adopters.
Reply
12-28-2006 @ 5:05PM
Willy W said...
Bigger Picture: Sorry, you're wrong. That big rig taking coffee to Starbucks probably gets only 4 mpg. BUT, it weighs 80,000 lbs, 3/4 of which is cargo. Actually a lot more efficient than your Honda Civic.
And FedEx and UPS ARE doing something...FedEx has CNG trucks, and UPS routes their trucks to minimize left turns - yeah, think about the impact that has, actually significant. Would you have thought of that? Didn't think so.
You ARE correct that WE are the problem. Too many people consuming WAY too much, but be careful who you say that to...gotta be politically correct, you know?
Reply
12-29-2006 @ 11:03AM
Alton Ray said...
I wish all of these negative minded people would just put as much energy toward solving these problems as they do gri-ping!, about the people who are trying to get us, & the rest of the world out the mess we're in. If we could just stop buying oil from these radical ungrateful, rich,(because of our waste), Mideast countries.Then maybe they could'nt afford to even come over to the US, to terrorize us in the first place! Lets All try to find a way to stop having to make these "War-Jihadist" Ignoramouses,Rich, and make the world a greener, safer place for our generations to come!
Reply
12-30-2006 @ 11:28PM
Marc R said...
#10. Remember that Honda is not a bogged down, non-innovative company such as GM - you simply don't see Honda making poor decisions leading to crushing cars and disturbing the public. While I wish our American car companies could be the technology leaders, the fact is they are not and are losing market share because of it. Hydrogen technology for cars is just beginning, and if you think back to early electronic calculators and where we are today, we will be driving this technology in a feasible manner before you can blink. The imaginable ultimately becomes feasible.
Reply