AutoblogGreen

I say that printing 3.5 - 4 million magazines per month is bad for the environment. What is Forbes doing to help.

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22 extra pounds of nickel? Probably from the NiMH battery used in the Prius.

Nevermind that with battery recycling programs like the ones that Toyota and Honda are running, you can get most of that nickel back to be used again in more batteries.

A naive oversimplification of the issue at hand. Shame on Forbes.

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He's just taking a cue from John C. Dvorak who HAS to say something inflammatory every few months just to keep readers around because no one gives a damn about what he says otherwise. On the Internet, we call them "trolls."

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for permalink try:
http://www.forbes.com/opinions/forbes/2006/1002/014.html

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1. I say that printing 3.5 - 4 million magazines per month is bad for the environment. What is Forbes doing to help.

Posted at 1:12PM on Oct 1st 2006 by Ken 0 stars
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Yes, but Forbes is not doing the pretending--environmentalists are. They are wealthier and thus more wasteful than the general population at large--they travel more, own more etc.

Prius has to prove that it's really green--not US. I have never seen so many people lay down their brains as fast and as easily as when Toyota says something.

But who am I to judge. Prius owners have a psychological need to feel superior to others and woe betide those who deign to shatter the illusion!

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#6, wait, you're agreeing with Forbes or are you the standard anti-hybrid troll? I ask because I reject Forbes' lame reasoning and I don't see any coming from you.

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The price of the car does not reflect the quantity of resources used--it reflects the value of resources used. Resources used in producing a Prius must be lured away from alternative uses, so they must be paid their opportunity cost (at least). If a Prius is more expensive than a comparable non-hybrid car, then it must be the case that production of the Prius involves using resources (including labor, capital, and raw materials such as copper, steel, nickel, etc.) that are of greater value than resources used in other cars.

That doesn't mean the Prius isn't environmentally friendly. Certainly it is the case that it has more toxic materials in it than other cars, but it also creates less CO2 and toxic emissions than other cars. Whether it is on net helpful or harmful depends on the relative damage from these two sources (toxic components and greenhouse gas and toxic emissions).

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7. #6, wait, you're agreeing with Forbes or are you the standard anti-hybrid troll? I ask because I reject Forbes' lame reasoning and I don't see any coming from you.

Posted at 11:10AM on Oct 2nd 2006 by Scott Eaton 0 stars
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Do you want accolades from your neighbors and friends for how "environmental" you are?
Take your need for approval elsewhere.
Toyota has to PROVE that they are really environmental.
I have never seen a MAJOR corporation taken at face value as quickly as Toyota.
Not even Wal-Mart--and they might well be "greener" than Toyota.
Your insecurities are showing. Get over yourself.

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In this case, the Prius's high price tag isn't simply due to the fact that green is fashionable: for the first-gen Prius, Toyota was losing money on each one that it sold. (The same was true of the first Honda Insights and Civic Hybrids.) I am not sure whether or not Toyota still loses money on each one, but the fact remains: The Prius is expensive because of its contents. Those contents are both physical (extra materials, advanced materials) and abstract (the research required to develop the new platform and technology).

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UtilityMaximizer and NZK are right-on. Don't think of the retail price tag, think of the cost to make it. Fashion handbags cost a lot less than their price, because designers are able to scam huge premiums for their brands.

Not so with the Prius, which appears to truly be more costly to build. For mainstream cars, it is accurate to say their different costs reflect the value of their economic inputs (and pretty accurate to say the retail price tag does the same, as no one can get away with charging huge premiums). Net-net all costs trace back to the cost of human labor at the most primal level.

However I agree that just because something consumes a greater value of inputs doesn't mean it has a more severe net environmental impact. The free market pricing mechanism is like a computer program, but that program is not trying to solve the problem of conserving the environment.

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We need to do a study of the cost of moving content (humans and cargo) by the type of vehicle, the average number of people and cargo moved per vehicle type.

Further, the likes of movie stars or other environmentalists who purport to be saving the planet driving Prius's do occasionally drive to the airport, then jump on their Gulfstream IV to fly cross country, negating in one flight, the amount of carbon saved by their little Prius 1000 fold.

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What's weak is the fact that you attack his lack of fact finding and sourcing and then call names. You'd be smarter to fill in the gaps with your own data and prove that it can be done/ But you won't because you're either lazy, a troll or you're afraid that he RIGHT.

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According to this logic, the catalytic converter is bad for the environment.

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Economically the Prius is not the best choice for cost. Unless you just want to save the environment. If they would get diesel prices level and open the market for more diesels, Diesel will be the way to go. The Europeans are certaintly not embracing the hybrid technology. Plus Autoweek magazine proved that the Prius did not get the EPA numbers, the Jetta TDI exceeded the EPA rating in their test.

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How about driving you current vehicle longer? I mean doesn't it take energy to create one's new shiny Prius??? (i.e. raw material + electricity generated from fossil fuel)

I realize that this is not the "sexiest" way to prove one is an environmentalist, but purchasing a new vehicle is merely a "feel good" exercise.

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How about driving you current vehicle longer?

Doesn't it take energy to create one's new shiny Prius??? (i.e. raw material + electricity generated from fossil fuel)

I realize that this is not the "sexiest" way to prove one's commitment to the environment, but purchasing a new vehicle is merely a "feel good" exercise.

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